<p>Unfortunately Ray I have had 2 cases where the Local building inspector thought that it was a wildfire risk to not have RS, and yes on a ground mount. Too long to go into here but in the rurals where my clients are, it can be easier to comply.</p>
<p>After about 4 phone calls it was easier to just do what he wanted and then make the change after inspection. Hope others do not have this issue.</p>
<p> </p>
<div><br />
<pre><strong><span style="font-size: small;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-size: small;">"we go where powerlines don't"
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text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
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<p>On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 15:07:52 -0700, Ray <ray@solarray.com> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- html ignored --> <!-- head ignored --> <!-- meta ignored -->
<p>Here's a page I put in my plan sets to make its clear for the AHJ. I have not had this challenged, and we have never implemented Rapid Shutdown on a ground mounted array. </p>
<p><img src="cid:9d7cc5680affd6cd5fe365b49c926e1d@sti.net" alt="" /></p>
<p> </p>
<pre class="moz-signature">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/20 2:57 PM, Christopher Warfel wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- meta ignored -->
<p>This points out the problem of inconsistent interpretation due in part to conflicting or unclear language. I always like to ask how many basements have protection around the NM conductors running through and along the rafters. I know several people on CMPs are on this listserv. I am hoping that they can add some clear language, and not leave it to a footnote for implementing this aspect of the NEC.</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/2020 4:42 PM, Ray wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- meta ignored -->
<p>It all comes down to where you install the PV disconnect. We put it on the wall before the conductors enter the building or at the array, therefore 690 doesn't apply. Proper signage is required indicating multiple power sources and listing the locations of their disconnects. </p>
<p>Also, this isn't just my opinion, many others on the list have said this, including folks involved in the code writing process, and the code says this. The fact that your inspector didn't catch the note on the figure is to be expected, as it is not out in flashing neon lights. It is however a clear statement of where 690 stops: at the PV disconnect. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, this is not further clarified in 2020 from what I can tell, so we will all continue to suffer inspectors incorrectly expecting 690.12 on ground mounted systems. I would politely ask your inspector to review that ruling with his higher ups. We can't start setting precedents that are unreasonable and incorrect. The array wiring is already required to be protected by either height, protective panels or fencing. </p>
<pre class="moz-signature">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/20 1:56 PM, Christopher Warfel wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- meta ignored -->
<p>Ray, I spent a bit of time today with a person who inspects for several state renewable energy programs and to summarize, this person said the opposite of what you said, and finish saying "seems pretty clear cut". We did review three sections of 690, and one from 705. I pointed out that these are not controlled conductors as I interpret them but they should have been defined. I did not see any earlier posts regarding this, so I apologize for the redundancy. </p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/2020 3:16 PM, Ray wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- meta ignored -->
<p>This has been discussed to death in previous Wrench strings. Just to cut to the chase:</p>
<p>please review NEC 2017, Figure 690.1(b) Note:(2). <em>The PV system disconnect in these diagrams separates the PV system from all other systems.</em><em><br /> </em></p>
<p>The inverter, charge controller, batteries etc are no longer part of article 690, and are not subject to its requirements. Look at articles 705, 706, and 480 for guidance for those <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>other systems</em></span>.</p>
<pre class="moz-signature"><em>Ray Walters</em>
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/13/20 12:55 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre">Hi Chris,
A few times and my back-up with a schneider system is their rapid
shutdown. In the end the inspector comes around and realizes there is
little gain for an offgrid ground mounted array for fireman. You do have to
educate them and if they are insistent on being a bonehead, install the RS
for the inspection and then use the box for the next one or sell it.
After almost 30 years offgrid the last thing I want is something that can
fault out the solar or worse when I am away. Networks can be the enemy at
times. Less is more offgrid in my opinion.
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060
On Thu, 13 Feb 2020 13:07:53 -0500, Christopher Warfel
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:cwarfel@entech-engineering.com"><cwarfel@entech-engineering.com></a> wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%">
<pre class="moz-quote-pre">I got involved in a long discussion on Rapid Shutdown compliance for
battery multimode, grid interconnect inverters that have a ground
mounted array. At one point, ground mounted array was not supposed to
be subject to Rapid Shutdown unless there were dc conductors on the
building. NEC 2017 seems to say it is if conductors are 3' in or on
buildings. The intent of Rapid Shutdown was supposed to protect fire
fighters from exposure to high dc voltage when the array was on a roof.
Every code cycle it morphs into something a little different. Has
anyone had to confront this situation, and was this type of project
subject to Rapid Shutdown? Thanks in advance for any clarity on this.
Chris
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