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<p>How do you insure proper charge voltage to the 12 v set? Never
tried that one.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/2/20 1:37 PM, Chris Worcester
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">I would like to
add that you don\u2019t need to get rid of the 12 v battery bank,
but use it for the high amp draw buffer, like a large
capacitor. Then use the DC to DC converter between the two
battery banks. Done this for years on multiple off grid
systems. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Chris
Worcester<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Solar Wind
Works<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">NABCEP PV
Installation Professional<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Office
530-582-4503<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Cell
530-448-9692<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.solarwindworks.com">www.solarwindworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris@solarwindworks.com">chris@solarwindworks.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Tom Duffy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 01, 2020 8:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] combining 24v and 12v
systems<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Agree!
use a Victron DC to DC Converter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Kind
regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Tom
Duffy<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#006600">Senior
Solar Design Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#006600"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">If
you don\u2019t have the Time or Money to do it right in the
first place, how will you get the Time and Money to fix
it?<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part1.4022BF35.816AE9A9@solarray.com"
alt="TSBLOGODPIx500x200" class="" width="224" height="81"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
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href="mailto:tom@solar-biz.com" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:#0563C1">tom@solar-biz.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">MAIN
TOLL FREE:</span></b><b><span
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Allan Sindelar<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, December 31, 2019 6:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] combining 24v and 12v
systems<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Agreed: no 12v tap. I\u2019ll add (with modest
experience, as this doesn\u2019t come up as an upgrade very often
any more) that Mean Well, despite the odd name, proved
itself pretty reliable in some early Wattsun tracker drives
and some other DC-DC applications. Available online; see <a
href="https://www.meanwell-web.com/en-gb/dcdc-converters/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.meanwell-web.com/en-gb/dcdc-converters/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Allan<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Dec 31, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Dan Fink <<a
href="mailto:danbob88@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">danbob88@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I second everyone. Center-tapping a
24 or 48v battery bank for 12v SEEMS like it should work
just fine, especially for low load infrequent use like a
12v water pressure pump for a greenhouse, a weather
station, etc.. Nope, I've been a loser every time, with
that battery or pair always the first to go bad.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Samlex and Victron both make DC-DC
converters I have had good luck with; they are
thermally protected and you can stack multiple units
for more amperage.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222;border:none
windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in">Dan
Fink</span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">Executive
Director, Buckville
Energy Consulting<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">NABCEP
PV Associate<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">NABCEP
Certified PV System
Inspector<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">IREC
Certified Instructor\u2122
for: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">~
PV Installation
Professional<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">~
Small Wind Installer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">NABCEP
Registered Continuing
Education Providers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222"><a
href="mailto:dan.fink@greendustrialtraining.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">d</a><a
href="mailto:anbob88@gmail.com" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">anbob88@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="vertical-align:baseline"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#222222">970-672-4342<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Dec 31, 2019 at 10:57 AM
Ray <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">ray@solarray.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>Even with battery balancers, battery tapping is
still a really bad idea. I know, I did it on my own
system in the 90s. The DC/DC converters are the way
to go, but be sure and over size it by a fair amount
to handle the fridge starting surge. Unfortunately
my favorites are no longer available: made by Solar
Converters in Canada. I've seen them last decades.
Iota should be good stuff, their chargers have long
term reliability. Samlex inverters have been around
for quite a while too, but I don't have long term
experience with their converters. <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Remote Solar<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>303 505-8760<o:p></o:p></pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 12/31/19 10:05 AM, Dave
Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p>Tapping a battery bank is not a good practice. it
will unbalance the bank. Much better to add a 24V
electronic converter for the 12V loads. Then
replace the 12V loads when time permits. They will
need a spare converter so buy 2. Amazon has tons
of these converters. Your quote is great BTW. H N
Y !<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre>
<pre><strong><span style="font-family:"Courier New"">text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre>
<p>On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 11:52:20 -0500, Chris
Schaefer <a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><chris@solarandwindfx.com></a>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">G'day and Happy New Year to
All, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Recently came across this
offgrid OB FX system. The first part is a
12v battery system w/ 2 PV modules, 2 Trojan
L16 batteries used to power a frig and
freezer about 6 years old. The second is a
24v with 3kw of PV, 4 Trojan L16's, twin OB
FX inverters installed by an HVAC contractor
back in 2016. This was their first offgrid
project. Oh boy, lol. The client would like
to add more battery capacity to both. My
thought here is since we are powering only a
12v frig and freezer why not simplify the
system by creating a single battery bank and
then tapping off of the 24v bank using
proper fusing and creating a 12v buss?
Admittedly I live in a 48v world so I'm
asking our esteemed colleges as to options
on how to address this. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Oh yeah, the installer is
unresponsive (no surprise there) and they
are also having firmware issues with an old
Mate 3 and would like me to install a new
Mate 3s but that's another issue I'll tackle
when I head out to site. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks All,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Christopher- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Chris
Schaefer's<br>
</span><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in;text-decoration:none"><img
id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part11.985FAC65.5E27E5AF@solarray.com"
alt="Image removed by
sender." class=""
width="200" height="40"
border="0"></span></a><br>
<em><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Tel/Fax
585-229-2083 or Cell
585-748-1870 </span></em><i><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span></i><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">5115
South Hill Road ~
Canandaigua New York 14424</span></em><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
</span></i><em><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.solarandwindfx.com</a>
~ E-mail: <span
style="color:blue"><a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></em><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="text-align:center"
align="center"><i><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;border:solid
windowtext
1.0pt;padding:0in"><img
id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:part15.21395AD5.43BE3C91@solarray.com"
alt="Image removed by
sender." class=""
width="200" height="56"
border="0"></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="text-align:center"
align="center"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt">Thomas
Jefferson, the author of our
great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to
exist when you take away from
those who are willing to work
and give to those who would
not."</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<pre> <o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a
href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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