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<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span>Thanks August,<br>
<br>
Yes so August has illuminated an alternative to the J-box supply side
tap approach that uses standard equipment and a load side connection but
still satisfies it being considered a 200 A connection by PG&E -
hence no need for a service upgrade and CTs for commercial accounts as
required for 400 Amp services.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>PG&E defines the
service rating amperage based on the enclosure rating of the first piece
of equipment the service hits. See section 1.14 in the Greenbook:</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><a
href="https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf"
target="_blank">https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf</a> </div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Approach 1: Supply Side: 200 A Meter Socket > J-box (such as <a
href="https://www.ideadigitalcontent.com/files/11028/784572230569_SS.pdf">this</a>
) > 200A fused Disconnect for Solar & > 200A Panel Board for
Loads<br>
<br>
Approach 2: Load Side: 200 A Meter Socket > 200 A Main Breaker >
400 Rated Bus with 200 A Main and PV on load side.<br>
<br>
Both accomplish not upgrading the service and not requiring CTs. They
both are fairly inexpensive with the right equipment.<br>
<br>
One thing I'm not clear on is the AIC rating neeeded for the equipment
in either scenario as PG&E is upgrading to a 50KVA transformer.
Will the 10,000 AIC rating of the J-box I listed fly?<br>
<br>
Others? Any other code considerations that might sway me before I ask my
AHJ and PG&E which they prefer?<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
</span><span><br>
August Goers wrote on 10/23/19 7:35 AM:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHp7QOcu94SVZibsCQfMvbzH-o4OuZyVJwwdYz_mL-yg7v4zNw@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Replying on list, I had mistakenly only replied to
Jeff off list. -August</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Oct 23, 2019 at 6:26 AM August Goers <<a
href="mailto:august@luminalt.com" moz-do-not-send="true">august@luminalt.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div
dir="ltr">Hi Jeff - I think technically you can try a supply side
connection per NEC 705.12(A) if you can find equipment with provisions
to both feed your existing service and then the solar. Sometimes a
splice box is required. <div><br></div><div>Without knowing the
configuration of the existing equipment, it's hard to understand if that
will be easier overall compared to just going the route where you
supply a 200 A rated meter socket (maybe you already have this?) and 200
A main breaker panel (with no loads) and then a 400 A bused panel to
connect both your loads and the PV system. <div><br></div><div>August<div><div
dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote>
<span></span>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAHp7QOcu94SVZibsCQfMvbzH-o4OuZyVJwwdYz_mL-yg7v4zNw@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br><div
class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Oct 21,
2019 at 11:52 AM Jeff Clearwater <<a
href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote
class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px
solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>Hey August, Jay, and
Burt and all,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the great input! and I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer.<br>
<br>
They are not asking for 400 Amps - I suggested it as that was the rating
of the solar ready panel I specified.<br>
<br>
They are just saying IF it's 400 Amps then they need room for CTs cause
it's a shop and hence residential equipment is not approved.<br>
<br>
So as August and Glenn indicate below - perhaps the easiest is a 200 AMP
meter can with a Supply side line. That does throw it back to my AJH
to approve but that is pretty standardI would hope. It also requires
the variance letter from PG&E.<br>
<br>
I'm running 5 SB7.7s at 32 Amps each - so 160 AMPS of solar input.<br>
<br>
So If I supply a 200 A meter can with supply side lugs that I can feed
into a 200 A fused disconnect and solar distribution panel and keep the
existing 200 Amp panel box fed by the 200 Amp main breaker - any reason
that won't work?<br>
<br>
OR does anyone know of a commercial 400 AMP solar ready meter base with 2
200 Amp feeds - one for solar and one for loads that does allow room
for CTs?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
August Goers wrote on 10/17/19 4:35 PM:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">Hi Jeff - <div><br></div><div>PG&E
defines the
service rating amperage based on the enclosure rating of the first piece
of equipment the service hits. See section 1.14 in the Greenbook:</div><div><br></div><div><a
href="https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/mybusiness/customerservice/startstop/newconstruction/greenbook/servicerequirements/greenbook_manual_full.pdf</a> </div><div><br></div><div>This
might be why they insist that you need a 400 A service just because you
want a 400 A rated bus. The easy way around it is to supply a 200 A
rated meter socket and main disconnect, then feed a 400 A sub panel. </div><div><br></div><div>A
meter/main like the Eaton MBEB200BTS might also work for you:
<a
href="https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-200-Amp-BR-Type-Main-Breaker-Meter-Breaker-without-Distribution-EUSERC-MBEB200BTS/100555147"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-200-Amp-BR-Type-Main-Breaker-Meter-Breaker-without-Distribution-EUSERC-MBEB200BTS/100555147</a> </div><div><br></div><div>August </div><div>Luminalt<br><br></div></div>
<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:windowtext">Hi Jeff,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Seems
to me if allowed in your jurisdiction, you might be best served by
installing a new 200A fused service disconnect ahead of the existing
main service panel. Or even a 400A one to allow for additional work
inside (CT\u2019s), then perform a supply side connection in it. Some
manufacturers of switchgear have an option for lugs that accept multiple
conductors, so no piercing of conductors needs to happen.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Good luck,</span></p>
<span style="color:windowtext">Glenn</span></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr"
class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Oct
17, 2019 at 12:19 PM Jeff Clearwater <<a
href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span></span>Esteemed
Wrenches,<br>
<br>
I am in need of changing out an existing 200 Amp service entrance in
order to accommodate a bus capable of handling a a 200 Amp Solar
backfeed (41 KW system) . <br>
<br>
PG&E is upgrading the transformer to handle the backfeed but when I
proposed a Siemens SolarReady 400 Amp service entrance they couldn't
approve it cause since the building is a shop - they classify it as
commercial and require a panel that can handle CTs when there is a 400
Amp service involved.<br>
<br>
Anyone else faced with this have solutions? What is the cheapest
equipment I can provide to satisfy all requirements?<br>
<br>
We don't need to upgrade the existing 200 amp service entrance equipment
for load purposes - only to meet the bus requirements of backfeed.<br>
<br>
Would it be cheaper and easier to use the existing (or new) 200 Amp
residential panel - not call it a 400 Amp upgrade but simply add a 200
Amp Supply Side Connection? Suggested equipment to do that in the most
economical manner?<br>
<br>
Any help well appreciated!<br>
<br>
Jeff <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>-- <br><span>~~~~~~~~~~~<br>
</span>
<div>
<span>Jeff Clearwater</span><span><span><br>
</span>Village Power Design<br>
</span><span><span><span><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">linkedin</a>
</span></span></span><br>
<span><span><a href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a></span><br>
cell - <span
style="display:inline;font-size:inherit;padding:0px;color:rgb(80,80,80)">413-559-9763<br>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></div>
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