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<p class="MsoNormal">I replied to another message about code/RS.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Each SPS circuit is independent, so no 240V waveform possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">And as was mentioned by Dave, be careful about planning to have motors or pumps be started by the SPS. The array cannot provide surge current like a battery, so the inverter is limited too. So check the specs of heat pump\u2026<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best-<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">SMA America<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave Tedeyan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 20, 2019 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Mike, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">For rapid shutdown, we are on NEC2014 in NY. So module level is not necessary.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And the SPS is a huge reason for the SB inverters on this one. And in this case, it is almost exactly what the homeowner is looking for. But with the two inverters, can those SPS be wired into a panel rather than just into an outlet? So
far, this customers house has not even been built yet. The barn is up, which is where the solar is going. So I am not 100% sure about loads, but there will likely be heat pumps.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So if the SPS's can put power the same panel, then that might be just what I am looking for in this particular case.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Although I am still curious if others have retrofitted other systems with something like I was initially talking about for an inverter that does not have a SPS. I think that at least in this market a low end 3rd party solution could gain
a lot of traction.<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Dave Tedeyan, PE</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">o. <u>607.277.1118 x121</u> f. 607.277.2119</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.taitem.com&data=02%7C01%7Cmichael.mahon%40sma-america.com%7Ca0cd26ef34764822fec208d73ddc4180%7Ca059b96c28294d1188374cc1ff84735d%7C0%7C0%7C637045888514385004&sdata=akgnbkMo1%2FmNn9%2FSBccmGbEk%2F6bJEEeA9x7lBwOjjt4%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">www.taitem.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Solar \u2022</span><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sustainability \u2022 Energy \u2022 Design</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">B-Corporation Best for the World 2018 Honoree</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 20, 2019 at 10:58 AM Harry Mahon <<a href="mailto:Michael.Mahon@sma-america.com">Michael.Mahon@sma-america.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dave \u2013 how is Rapid Shutdown being complied with? And what load requires 240V \u2013 or is that needed to \u201cfool\u201d the PV inverters?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">With two SB-40s, you have the ability to wire for the homeowner two Secure Power Supply circuits \u2013 and get up to 2000W (at 120VAC) from each when sun is up and grid is down, no
batteries or extra inverter needed. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This is exactly the \u201csimple industry solution\u201d you mention, and it has been available in US from Sunny Boys only since 2013.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best regards -<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Mike<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">SMA America<br>
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Technical Trainer, Solar Academy<br>
6020 West Oaks Boulevard, Suite 300</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif">Rocklin, CA 95765</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Dave Tedeyan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 20, 2019 7:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Running a grid tied system when the grid is down<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hi all, <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I get asked this question frequently, as I am sure many others do, and of course the first answer is "it cannot be done". But can it? I have a customer who is very keen on trying
to make this happen. After a few lengthy conversations, he still wants to try it, even after understanding the limitations (i.e. a cloud passes by and now you cannot power loads...)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have some thoughts on how to make this work, and thought I would post it here to get others comments who I am sure have more experience in something like this than I do. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-PV system would have to be backfed, so that they can turn off the main breaker to disconnect from the utility entirely (and then have to look at the neighbors, or guess when the
grid comes back)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Have a fairly small 12V off grid inverter/charger than can be powered by a single 12v battery. This inverter would have to be manually turned off until after the grid is down and
the main breaker is disconnected.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Would also need an auto transformer to bump up the voltage to 240V. Something like the Outback PSX240.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Once the main breaker is off and the off grid inverter is on, would it be able to wake up the grid tied inverters? On this project, there are two SMA SB-40 inverters.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-There would need to be some kind of dump/diversion load to deal with excess power coming from the GT inverters. I have not used these in the past, but are the controllers smart
enough to just deal with any excess power in the system?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Have a trickle charger on the battery to keep it topped off most of the time.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Another thought would be to DC couple. This would involve having a DC switch in one of the strings going to the GT inverter, such that when the house is islanded from the grid,
they can flip the switch and have that one string go to a high voltage CC. Then they could just run some small loads off the power from that one string, or maybe we could allow it to try to wake up the GT inverters as well.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">This particular homeowner specifically does not want much in the way of batteries and has a smaller budget than will allow something sensible like a Sunny Island.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">At least in upstate NY, there are many people who would like to be able to take advantage of their solar when the sun is shining, but who just do not have the budget for a legit
battery system. I am somewhat surprised that there is no simple industry solution for this yet, although maybe it is more complicated than I am making it out to be. And of course, you need a very hands on homeowner who very well understands the limitations
of this kind of setup.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I would certainly appreciate any feedback or comments on this, and also would like to hear if anyone has tried this kind of setup before.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thanks much!<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">-Dave<br clear="all">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Dave Tedeyan, PE</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">o.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Solar \u2022</span><span style="font-size:12.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">Sustainability \u2022 Energy \u2022 Design</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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