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<p>In the regulatory vacuum that ensued, we now have dozens of
unregulated connectors, no way of knowing what might be on past
jobs, confused installers, nervous customers, while the market
they tried to control is flooded with "MC 4" crimpers on Amazon
for $20. <br>
</p>
<p>All of this for the main connector used millions of times in
almost ALL Solar installations. I don't blame just the specific
manufacturers that might have benefited briefly from this lack of
standards, but all of us for letting this happen literally right
in front of our eyes, and to go on for over a decade. <br>
</p>
<p>The high DC voltages being used by most GT installs these days
warrant serious improvements in our safety standards process. <br>
</p>
<p>Arc fault detectors are not the first line of defense, good
connections are. <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/19/19 5:48 PM, Bradley Bassett
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAEpjgH2sjrT+HsTOxXsbcFqnCbnF6piyb8LVy_jt0gWc3weRvQ@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Someone previously at AEE tried to get NEMA involved in
setting a standard, but it turned out that they were not
getting cooperation from the mfg, so could not proceed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brad<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:28
PM Bryan Norkunas <<a href="mailto:bryan@pv-cables.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">bryan@pv-cables.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US">
<div class="gmail-m_8520164775017935946WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Yes,
I have seen and have copies of many of these 3<sup>rd</sup>
party \u201ccompatibility\u201d tests.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
Brian Mehalic [mailto:<a
href="mailto:brian@solarenergy.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">brian@solarenergy.org</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2019 1:16 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Bryan Norkunas<br>
<b>Cc:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] connector mismatch</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">You say you've seen many of these
tests in the past; do you specifically mean the
intermatability test?</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the info! (And you
also really helped me out identifying some
connectors on a problem-job a couple months
back...thanks again!).<br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Brian
Mehalic <br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV
Installation
Professional\u2122 R031508-59</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">National
Electrical CodeŽ CMP-4
Member</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">(520)
204-6639</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Solar
Energy International<br>
<a
href="http://www.solarenergy.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.solarenergy.org</a></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">SEI
Professional Services</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="http://www.seisolarpros.com"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:9.5pt">http://www.s</span>eisolarpros.com</a></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Sep 19, 2019 at 1:07 PM
Bryan Norkunas <<a
href="mailto:bryan@pv-cables.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">bryan@pv-cables.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none
solid;border-width:medium medium medium
1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Also
note the Intertek testing, I have seen many of
these in the past \u2013 </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">but
never one of them tested with 12AWG or 10AWG
connectors, it has always been 14AWG for some
reason.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">And
as a company that specializes in this niche, I
can say in the last 10 years we have never had
the request to manufacture anything smaller
than 12AWG when it came to PV Connectors.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bryan Norkunas</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="mailto:bryan@pv-cables.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bryan@pv-cables.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img
id="gmail-m_8520164775017935946gmail-m_1280637830323093605_x005f_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:part7.3D92431A.FAE0B51C@solarray.com" alt="Description:
Description:
PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140"
class="" width="140" height="140" border="0"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:16pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">PV-Cables Inc.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">1155 Redway Drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">PO Box 2562</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Redway, CA 95560</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">(707) 923-3000 office</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.pv-cables.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.pv-cables.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223)
currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid
none none;border-width:1pt medium
medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Bryan Norkunas<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2019
12:57 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches'<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
connector m</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(0,73,126)"><img
id="gmail-m_8520164775017935946gmail-m_1280637830323093605_x005f_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:part10.75C0A6B5.4B018610@solarray.com" alt="Description:
Description:
cid:image002.jpg@01CD22E8.974B6470"
class="" width="25" height="23"
border="0"></span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">ismatch</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Ray,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Solarworld
went from using MC4 connectors, then to Kostal
KSK4 connectors, then Amphenol H4, and finally
Amphenol UTX connectors.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">The
cross mating with the KSK4 connectors had the
most issues and we assembled a lot of adapters
for end users and installers. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Back
in 2016, we were talking with Solarworld about
the Amphenol UTX/H4 to MC4 connections
failing. (I attached the Compatibility letter
that Solarworld was providing their customers,
as well as the Amphenol Compatibility
documents ) </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Back
then, I was mating connectors and grinding
away the plastic housings to determine the
terminal overlap of cross mated connectors.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Here
are my notes from back then:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">The overlap on an
MC4 to MC4 connection = 0.305\u201d</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">The overlap on an
MC4 to UTX connection = 0.265\u201d</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">A
lot of the older H4 to MC4 issues were end
users not fully seating MC4 female to the H4
male. It takes some force to get them to fit
completely and a nightmare to disconnect if
needed.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">These
tended to fail in higher heat or higher
humidity environments. The picture below is
one that wasn\u2019t fully seated.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""><img
id="gmail-m_8520164775017935946gmail-m_1280637830323093605Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part11.714E3C56.E1A408C2@solarray.com"
alt="cid:image003.jpg@01D18A5E.48835320"
class="" width="264" height="200" border="0"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Hanwa
Q Cell have used many different connectors on
their modules over the years. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Jinko
modules usually have Jinko connectors in my
small amount of experience with them. Jinko
still does not offer a crimping tool for their
connectors, that I know of and still only UL
for 20A. We do little work with these
connectors, so my input here might be
outdated.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Lastly,
I have seen a few larger distributing
customers of ours doing good work on obtaining
the connector/module info from module
manufactures, prior to placing their blanket
orders. In turn, the module mfg.\u2019s are
typically supplying them (or sometimes us)
connectors for homerun cables, adapters, etc.
And finally the end customer is knowing
what connectors on the modules they are
purchasing, with the availability of getting
the correct connectors/homerun cables needed
to complete the install.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Bryan Norkunas</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="mailto:bryan@pv-cables.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">bryan@pv-cables.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img
id="gmail-m_8520164775017935946gmail-m_1280637830323093605Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:part7.3D92431A.FAE0B51C@solarray.com" alt="Description:
Description:
PV-Cables_Logo_Transparent_Bkgnd_140x140"
class="" width="140" height="140" border="0"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:16pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">PV-Cables Inc.</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">1155 Redway Drive</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">PO Box 2562</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Redway, CA 95560</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)">(707) 923-3000 office</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.pv-cables.com/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.pv-cables.com</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-family:"Californian
FB","serif";color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-color:rgb(181,196,223)
currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid
none none;border-width:1pt medium
medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 19, 2019
12:08 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches]
connector mismatch</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I did some research on the modules we've used
over the past 15+ years to see if we had
potential mismatched connector issues. We've
used Amphenol H4 connects since the advent of
locking solar connectors. We had assumed they
were compatible back then.</p>
<p>Solarworld switched from MC4 to H4 somewhere
back 2013 to 2015. I didn't even notice. SW 280s
through SW 300 looks like H4, while SW 270s and
back to the long, skinny SW 165s are MC 4, but
its not that clear, as I found a spec sheet for
an SW 260 with an H4. </p>
<p><u>Conclusion: Basically we can't be sure.</u></p>
<p>Hanwa Q cell, looks like their 60 cell mods run
the MC 4 or MC 4 compatible (whatever that
means) while their 72 cell mods apparently use
the H4/ UTX </p>
<p><u>Conclusion: Total confusion in the field.</u></p>
<p>Jinko? They don't even list the connector type
on any of the spec sheets I have for the past
few years.</p>
<p><u>Conclusion: No way for a designer/ installer
to know beforehand what connector to use in
the field.</u></p>
<p>Basically this is a total break down of
responsibility for the solar industry; a
complete lack of standards. Why hasn't an
organization like NEMA stepped in to standardize
the connectors like all AC connectors have been,
going back for over a century? </p>
<p>I made a very wrong assumption that when our
industry adopted the MC 4/ H4 locking type
connectors that they were standardized and
compatible. I can only hope that my systems
running at relatively low voltage (<150 vdc)
will not have issues. </p>
<p> </p>
<pre>Ray Walters</pre>
<pre>Remote Solar</pre>
<pre>303 505-8760</pre>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 9/4/19 4:26 PM, Jerry
Shafer wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just to add, l had a lab
and l did testing on connectors, we found
that most of the aec issues were under low
light. This appeared to be when iradiance
was low and once the irads went up the issue
was less likely, this was because the
Male-female contact was not tight enough and
under lower power it would arc instead of
heating up and expanding. I used a IR Camera
but could see little change due to the
plastic. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Then l used an IV curve
tester and shaded partially shaded the
module after several repeat testing the
connectors got warm. I would suggest
making your own connector pull out tool to
check the contact pressures. This is where
you may find your problem components. It
appears that early am testing had lower
volts and the inverter pushed the current
up and causes the loose connector to fail
due to the lower volts. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This testing was done
both in the field 1/2 meg and lab testing
results were very close.</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The modules used for
testing were Trina and the field inverters
were ABB and Fronius</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sorry for the long note</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jerry</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 4, 2019,
2:52 PM Steven Lawrence <<a
href="mailto:lawrencesteven@gmail.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">lawrencesteven@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-color:currentcolor
currentcolor currentcolor
rgb(204,204,204);border-style:none none none
solid;border-width:medium medium medium
1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in
5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Everyone,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Just to add to
this, I've seen multiple melted
connectors that couldn't be traced to
anything other than mixing
manufacturers. I've seen some
connectors where you can clearly
seeing arcing on the pin itself and
nowhere else. The crimps and the
housing were fine. I've postulated it
had to do with slightly different
metals expanding/contracting at
different rates. I've made it a very
hard rule at my company to never mix
manufacturers of connectors. When we
order modules, we specifically have
the PO call out the manufacturer of
the connector (can't just be "MC4
compatible"). Typically we order that
same brand of connectors, but
sometimes we end up getting 6" jumpers
made by a harness company (there are
some connectors out there that can
only work with #12 wire. Can't use
them on #10 homeruns). It's
drastically cut down on the number of
melted connectors. We've averaged
maybe 1 or 2 on 6MW projects over a
year with this hard requirement versus
100+ we had on a 1MW rooftop project
that mixed multiple manufacturers.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Steven Lawrence</p>
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