<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'll let you all know once we sort this out. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">A series of blade type disconnects could work. I'm not doing the AC distribution past the inverters, but I need to consult with the electrical contractor so I'm driving the bus at this point. Some combination of manual and automated controls should work.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="font-family:"helvetica neue",helvetica,arial,sans-serif"><tbody><tr><td rowspan="2"></td><td rowspan="2"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" style="border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(237,237,237);color:rgb(85,85,85);font-size:13px;padding-left:10px"><tbody></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table><b><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></b></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 10:10 PM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">We don\u2019t know how you have the AC distribution set up. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">If you have a main that then distributes to sub panels, how about relays on delay timers that go to each sub. 3-5 seconds would be more than enough. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Or mechanical discos with simple instructions of delay between each. </div><div dir="ltr">But yea people have to read and comprehend and it\u2019s probably dark so maybe the delay timers. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Let us know what you end up using </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Jay</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Sep 12, 2019, at 3:04 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><p>Jason, any chance of one of the "help" being made knowledgeable to manage this? In a way this is what I do for my offgrid clients. If they won't, I walk away because it is just to complicated at this stage in RE. Hoping it will change!</p>
<p>I get them up to speed on managing loads and understanding what is going on with the power. This saves me from the headache. Explain that it can save them quite a bit of money also. I do not envy you and income is important. Good Luck!</p>
<pre><strong><span>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" target="_blank">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
<p>On Thu, 12 Sep 2019 17:39:13 -0400, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I definitely understand that I can't prevent it 100%, but I can surely mitigate the likelihood. It's highly unlikely that all 10 refrigerators will all start simultaneously based on temperature with the well pump and two air conditioners except when power is first applied. Moreso than the ATS changeover, I'm concerned about scenarios where everything is completely off at the property and the inverter breakers are flipped on. Then I'm essentially guaranteed I'll have 15 motors all trying to start at the same time. I'm planning 27-32kW of capacity, which may well be enough depending on how gentle the HVAC units start, but I want to have a strategy in case things don't go as planned.</div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I was thinking that the ATS would be a good strategy to trigger time delays because it would be implemented whether it was a startup from no power source or during power source transfer.</div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The challenge here is that more than half of these loads will be used maybe a few weeks a year. I'm tasked with designing a system that will operate efficiently with both high and low occupancy levels, and it's only responsible of me to investigate ways to reduce the budget requirement for the total system. Money is probably not a factor here, but bigger, bigger, bigger also means bigger headaches when you have 8 inverters to maintain rather than 6 or 4.</div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I do have some other thoughts like ensuring the well pump doesn't turn on while the Air Conditioning is running. Since it's on a float switch with ample at-grade storage, I don't really care if it runs only at periods of light load. </div>
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<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">You do have a point about turning refrigerators on and off by switching power. I might look into ways to cut the compressor using controls in the refrigerators instead. That will be a conversation with Sub-Z to see if they care that power is cycled during operation.</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 8:16 PM Jay <<a href="mailto:jay.peltz@gmail.com" target="_blank">jay.peltz@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div dir="ltr">You've got to plan on them all starting at once anyway. You can't expect that it'll never happen. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">And really how do you prevent it. The refrigerators and AC's are on all the time waiting for the thermostat to activate. And it's not good to turn a working fridge on/off especially is the compressor is running. </div>
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<div dir="ltr">Bigger loads, bigger inverters, bigger dollars. </div>
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<div dir="ltr"><br>On Sep 11, 2019, at 4:24 PM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">That is what I was thinking, but how will the contactor coils "know" when the ATS switches to inverter power. I'm thinking I need to use an AUX relay or a series of relays to produce the desired result. I don't think it will be necessary when going from solar to generator in this case, but maybe. I guess the question is how to activate the time delay any time the ATS switches over. That would be the easiest solution maybe.</div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm probably looking at a quad Conext XW+ system here. Even at over 100A @ 240V continuous rating I'm anticipating some startup issues with all those motors (I forgot to mention well and pressure pumps also!)</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 5:50 PM Michael Morningstar <<a href="mailto:mjmorningstar@gmail.com" target="_blank">mjmorningstar@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div>Put the loads on contractors, control the contractors with adjustable time delay relays. Stagger the timing.</div>
<div><br>On Sep 11, 2019, at 2:41 PM, Jason Szumlanski <<a href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" target="_blank">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">In an off-grid situation I'm looking for a strategy to manage transfer from generator power to inverter power because I have a lot of high startup load appliances planned for a system. Think 8 mini-refrigerators, one sub-z large refrigerator, and an under-cabinet ice maker, not to mention air conditioning. I would like to start these loads in stages if they all call to start up immediately upon system startup or during ATS switch over. Any ideas?</div>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I guess while I'm on the subject I should ask about my eye-roll, keep-me-up-a-night, giving-me-heartburn problem with this ice maker. It's going to be outdoors in Florida and they expect it to make 25-50 pounds of ice per day. I am finding it really hard to estimate energy use for this appliance. Any ideas (other than the obvious "don't do it" answer)?</div>
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