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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Blake:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thank you for the reference from Schneider.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I think the point being missed here is that the ampacity rating of each device needs to be evaluated in light of the power flow in either direction. If a 40 Amp breaker is supplied between the utility and the disconnect in question, in case of a fault, it could supply more current from the grid than a 30 Amp disconnect is rated to handle. This is particularly relevant considering the grid is not nearly as much a current limited source as an inverter.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Sincerely,</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William Miller </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/"><span style="color:blue">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Quote of the month: \u201cAs they age, batteries transition from energy </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">storage devices to energy consuming devices.\u201c W. Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Blake Gleason [mailto:<a href="mailto:blake@sunlightandpower.com">blake@sunlightandpower.com</a>] <br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 22, 2019 12:38 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] 30 amp disconnect/40 amp breaker</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hi William,</p><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Yes, the bulletin I attached was just an example of a 100% rated disconnect (which happened to be DC since that's the one I had handy!). My understanding is that most of the NON-fused Square D switches are rated for 100%.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">See this FAQ from the manufacturer: <a href="https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/faqs/FA237949/">https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/faqs/FA237949/</a>, quoted below:</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Resolution:</span></strong><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><br></span></b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">All General Duty, Heavy Duty or Double Throw Safety Switches maximum current rating, either 80% or 100% of the nameplate rating, depends on if the switch is Fusible or NON-Fusible.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Fusible switches are rated to carry up to 80% of the amp rating of the fuses installed in the switch</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">o<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Non-fusible (unfused) switches are rated to carry 100% of the switch nameplate ampere rating</span></p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> Regarding this point:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If, hypothetically, you could find a 30A disconnect that was continuous duty rated, if it is fed by a 40 Amp breaker, as I believe would be required, then the 30 Amp disconnect is still not suitable. You can not feed a 30 Amp rated device with more than 30 Amps.</span> </p></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I believe the original poster was asking about a 6000W inverter with 25A max output. So in that case you could use a 100% rated non-fusible disconnect, because the max current is only 25A. (The required 40A breaker is sized larger because commonly available breakers are only 80% rated, not 100%. But the max current is still only 25A.) See 690.8(A) for calculation of maximum circuit current, specifically section (3) for inverters: "The maximum current shall be the inverter continuous output current rating." (Not "the inverter continuous output current multiplied by 1.25.")</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Blake</p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 10:59 PM William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com">william@millersolar.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Blake:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thanks for sharing the data sheet. The document applies to DC PV systems, however, and I believe the discussion pertains to the AC inverter output. Therefore the bulletin you attached does not apply here. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">(Note also that this data sheet indicates you need to use two poles for any application, ungrounded or grounded. I believe that requirement was usurped later on for Square D Heavy Duty switches, but again, that is for a different application.)</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I looked again at Square D general and heavy duty safety switches rated at 30 Amps and I could not find any reference that these switches are continuous duty rated. I still believe that for the application described, the 125% rating has to be applied.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">If, hypothetically, you could find a 30A disconnect that was continuous duty rated, if it is fed by a 40 Amp breaker, as I believe would be required, then the 30 Amp disconnect is still not suitable. You can not feed a 30 Amp rated device with more than 30 Amps.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bottom line, a 30 Amp disconnect will not meet code on the described project.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Miller Solar</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">805-438-5600</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank">www.millersolar.com</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">CA Lic. 773985</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Quote of the month: \u201cAs they age, batteries transition from energy </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">storage devices to energy consuming devices.\u201c W. Miller</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Blake Gleason<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 21, 2019 4:20 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] 30 amp disconnect/40 amp breaker</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Typically a fused disconnect can only handle 80% of it's nominal current on a continuous basis. Unfused disconnects are often 100% rated. For example, see attached Square D bulletin #3110DB0401R0410.</p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">So, a 100% rated (unfused) 30A disconnect (at least, from Square D) should be fine here, as long as your OCPD is provided elsewhere (eg, the breaker you mentioned). </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">NEC 690.8(B)(1)(Exception) explicitly allows a 100%-rated device to be used without multiplying the inverter output current by 125%.</p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 3:22 PM Greg <<a href="mailto:greg@remotepowerinc.com" target="_blank">greg@remotepowerinc.com</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Fellow Wrenches, I'm having a discussion with a utility engineer regarding the following situation:<br><br>Installing a 6kW inverter that has a full rated output of 25 amps. 80% of 30 is 24. That means to me I need to go up to a 40 amp breaker. I'm running #8 (continuous load 25 x 1.25 etc.) <br>The engineer believes I should use a 60 amp disco since it's on a 40 amp breaker. My thinking is I can use a 30 amp disco since it can not produce more than 25 amps ever. <br><br>Do any of you have a reference that shows what I'm doing is okay? Not okay? <br><br>Thanks again, <br>Greg Egan<br>Remote Power Inc. </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" 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