<html><head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span>Hi Chris,<br>
<br>
Thanks so much for the reference. I still am at an impasse. I have an
unhappy customer and want to proceed cautiously - Tech support at Radian
will only promise 1/2hp per 4 KW radian module - so only 1.5 HP for an
8048 - It's a 2 HP but as you know HP is not a definitive determinant -
field experience shows we can do more but it depends on the situation.
I asked Outback engineers if they could work with me in taking field
data like inrush etc to determine more exactly. This particular sewage
macerator has high head.<br>
<br>
I called the control panel manufacturer for the sewage pump (attached)
and they said they couldn't add soft start to a single phase unit.
Internet research shows you can't do much with single phase with the
standard VFD (variable frequency drive) but there are other electronic
approaches but I'm not sure they will work with the existing control
panel.<br>
<br>
Anyone else with experience that might be relevant? Thanks!<br>
<br>
And thanks again Chris I will make that call - Thanks!<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
Chris Schaefer wrote on 7/29/19 8:39 AM:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAFOvL0bfLpeXgDoGbivxw9oY0GGrPtacPvVD0fPbJ7o-hjKt8Q@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">I've been following this post with great interest. I
was looking at an off-grid project a couple years back that was being
run entirely by large diesel generators and had two massive AC units
where the LRA was 104 Amps. I found a company that makes what amounts to
a soft start. I don't recall the engineer/owners name but he was very
knowledgeable. His number is 813-601-0947 and web site is <a
href="http://gen-pro.biz" moz-do-not-send="true">gen-pro.biz</a>. To
finish the client never made the switch from generator to solar so I
can't say if these units work. Hope this provides another option.<div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Christopher</div><div><p
style="text-align:center"><i><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-size:9pt">229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span
style="font-size:12px"><br></span></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10pt"><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Arial,
sans-serif">5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br></font></font></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a> ~
E-mail: <span style="color:blue"><a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p><p
style="text-align:center"><i><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img
src="http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg"
moz-do-not-send="true" height="56" width="200"><br></span></i></p><p
style="text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Thomas
Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy"
will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to
work and give to those who would not."</span></p></div></div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul
26, 2019 at 4:15 PM Jeff Clearwater <<a
href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" moz-do-not-send="true">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>Hey Jerry,<br>
<br>
I think the issue is capacitor start motors can't handle VFDs. but
there are other approaches to soft start - still learning. Thanks for
the reference!<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
Jerry Shafer wrote on 7/26/19 12:59 PM:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><div dir="auto">Wrenches<div dir="auto">I have
quite a few freq drives
on single phase, the controller came from ABB, the pic attached is
reference only, it was for a AC chiller grid connected not off grid but
the controller works either way </div><div dir="auto">Jerry</div></div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Jul
26, 2019, 12:47 PM Jeff Clearwater <<a
href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>>
wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>Thanks Chris!<br>
<br>
Unfortunately I'm finding that unless you build an integrated control -
motor combo that can soft start like Franklin did - the majority of
single phase motors can't use soft start. That is probably a 3-phase
motor in that pump that they have an inverter for in the controls - or
they used a shaded pole or spit capacitor single phase motor which can
use soft start - at least that is what my initial research and phone
call to the pump control company has thus far revealed.<br>
<br>
Apparently you can play with the voltage-amperage tradeoffs when you
have the 3 magnetic fields interaction - single phase doesn't allow you
much room to wiggle.<br>
<br>
I do see single phase soft-starts on the market - still researching but
that's my initial findings.<br>
<br>
Anyone know differently?<br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
Jeff<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:chris@OasisMontana.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@OasisMontana.com</a> wrote on 7/26/19 9:27
AM:</span><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite"><div
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461WordSection1"><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span>Here
at the Oasis home/office, we
have a <span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461SpellE">Goulds</span>
3 hp
240VAC soft start pump
(#18GS30, w/ Franklin motor HS09970 and #3AS30 <span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461SpellE">Aquavar</span>
Solo controller); it\u2019s been running off of my 2011 Radian GS8048 since
2016, when I had to drill a new well (the water table is dropping) and
pump from about 300 ft. depth.<span> </span>I
have 3500 ft. of drip irrigation, a big garden and the usual domestic
water loads.<span> </span>It\u2019s worked
flawlessly since its inception, and I cannot speak more highly of <span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461SpellE">Goulds</span>
pumps.<span> </span>My
first one lasted 23 years (it was a 1.5HP model).<span> </span></span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span> </span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span>Best,</span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span> </span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span>Chris
Daum</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri"
size="3" color="black"><span>Oasis Montana Inc.</span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span>406-777-4309
or 4321</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri"
size="3" color="black"><span>406-777-4309 fax</span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3" color="black"><span><a
href="http://www.oasismontana.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><font color="#0563c1"><span
style="color:rgb(5,99,193)">www.oasismontana.com</span></font></a>
</span></font><font size="3" color="black"><span></span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span> </span></font></p><div><div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span>From:</span></font></b><font
color="black"><span>
RE-wrenches
<a
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Dana<br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, July 26, 2019 9:34 AM<br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> 'Jeff Clearwater'
<a
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com></a>;
'RE-wrenches'
<a
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Soft
Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?</span></font></p></div></div><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font
face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span>Yes I have used soft
starts offgrid with SW
& VFX for 15+ years, in spite of doing load evaluations & others
installing what ever they normally used. It has been a great rescue
device. Well pump, 2 dish washers, booster pump, etc.</span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span> </span></font></p><div><div
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-left:none;border-bottom:1.5pt
solid windowtext;padding:0in 0in 1pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><font
face="Century Gothic" size="2" color="#002060"><span> </span></font></p></div><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Century Gothic" size="2" color="#002060"><span> </span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span>Dana
Orzel Great
Solar Works, Inc. </span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><font
face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span>C -
208.721.7003 <a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">dana@solarwork.com</a></span></font></b></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span>Idaho
Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV #
028374</span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Century Gothic"
size="4" color="black"><span>NABCEP #
051112-136 <a href="http://www.solarwork.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.solarwork.com</a></span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><u><font face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span>"Responsible
Technologies for Responsible
People since 1988" </span></font></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><b><font face="Webdings" size="5" color="green"><span
style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green;font-weight:bold">P</span></font></b><font
face="Helvetica" color="navy"><span
style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:navy"> </span></font><font
face="Arial" size="2" color="green"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:green">Please
consider the environment before printing this email.</span></font><font
face="Helvetica"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"></span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><font
face="Century Gothic" size="4" color="black"><span> </span></font></p><div><div
style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt
solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-left:0.5in"><b><font face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span
style="font-size:11pt;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black"><span style="color:windowtext"> RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">On Behalf Of </span></b>Jeff
Clearwater<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday,
July 26, 2019 8:04 AM<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [RE-wrenches] Soft Start
Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?</span></font></p></div></div><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hey
Wrenches,<br><br>Anyone have success using soft-start modules on well
and sewage pumps to lower the surge for off-grid inverters?<br><br>The
baby we are trying to tame is a 2 HP 15 amp, 53 LRA Omnivore Grinder
Pump - LSG200 series - single phase 230 Vac.<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>Jeff<br><br><br>~~~~~~~~~~~</span></font></p><div><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">Jeff
Clearwater<br>Village Power Design<br><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">linkedin</a> <br><a
href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a><br>cell
- </span></font><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content"><font
color="#505050"><span style="color:rgb(80,80,80)">413-559-9763</span></font></span><font
color="#505050"><span style="color:rgb(80,80,80)"><br><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></font></p></div><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br>Jeff
Clearwater wrote on 7/26/19 6:32 AM:<br><br></span></font></p><blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><b><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">Thanks Ray and Jerry,<br><br>Great
to hear from you both with your years of combined experience :)</span></font></b><br><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">So yes looking at the 5 sec has me switching
back to a trusty Radian - <u>even then from what you are saying it may
not work.</u></span></b><br><br>And you are right Ray - Outback is
careful to rate the "overload capability" in KVA rather than KW due most
likely to voltage sag of course.<br><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">So this 53 LRA 2 HP motor - if I can only trust
the 5 second (50 A) might not start - especially with other loads on
the system?</span></b><br><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">RADIAN
SURGE RATINGS:</span></b><br><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Maximum
Output Current</span></b> <br>1 ms peak 100 Amps AC at 240 VAC, 200
Amps AC at 120 VAC<br>100 ms RMS 70.7 Amps AC at 240 VAC<br><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Overload Capability</span></b><br>100 ms surge
16.97 kVa<br>5 seconds 12 kVa<br>30 minute 9 kVa<br><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Other's experience with 2 HP sewage pump or
well pump motors on a Radian?<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>Jeff</span></b><br><br><br>Ray
wrote on 7/25/19 5:48 PM:<br><br></p><blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">I only look at
the 5 sec and 30 sec surge
ratings to get an idea what an inverter can really do in the real
world. All those millisecond ratings/ in rush current specs won't get a
pump or motor started, and will basically just get you into trouble.
The reason they have those ratings in amps and not watts, is that the
voltage craters during that 100mS surge.</span></font></p><p
style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt">I can't tell you how many times we tried to
start a pump, compressor, or large table saw, and the inverter just shut
off, even though the "in rush current" was within the theoretical
inverter capacity. Actual Wrench list testimonials are much more
valuable than those arcane specs.</span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Ray Walters</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Remote Solar</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">303 505-8760</span></font></pre><div><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">On 7/25/19
5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:</span></font></p></div><blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><b><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span
style="font-size:11pt;font-weight:bold">Hey There Wrenches,</span></font></b><br><br>So
be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT
double the surge ratings of a single SW.<br><br>But that brings me to my
second question:<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold"><br>What inverter
surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum Inrush or LRA -
1ms? 100ms? 1 sec?</span></b><br><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">Your engineering wisdom welcomed!</span></b><br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Jeff<br><br><br><br>Jeff
Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:<br><br></p><blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">Thanks
for the tip! I'll check the firmware.<br><br>Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:<br><br></span></font></p><blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hi Jeff,</span></font></p><p
style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p><p style="margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-size:11pt">I am not going
to guess if this will work, it
should. I use XW's because they start anything I have come across.</span></font></p><p
style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt">If you do this, make sure but SW's have the
latest and same firmware. There were problems with stacked SW's early on
in their development.</span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">"we go where powerlines don't"</span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a></span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a></span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:"Courier New"">text 209 813 0060</span></font></b></strong></pre><p
style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri" size="2"><span
style="font-size:11pt">On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff
Clearwater <a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com></a>
wrote:</span></font></p><blockquote
style="border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:1.5pt
solid rgb(16,16,255);padding:0in 0in 0in
4pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt"><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">Hey
Esteemed Wrenches,<br><br>So I recently built a power trailer with a
single 4 KW (4048) Schneider SW for a client with a moderate cabin
lifestyle.<br><br>But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP
Macerator is only rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a
whopping kick - probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor
rating.<br><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">The SW has the
following surge capability:</span></b><br><br><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:</span></b><br>Continuous
<span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">-
15.2</span>
Amps 3700 Watts<br><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">30
Minutes - 18.3</span>
Amps 4400
Watts<br><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">5
Secs</span> - 29.2
Amps 7000 Watts<br><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">Max
(100ms?) -
41</span> Amps - 9840 Watts<br><br>Can I be confidant that 2 stacked
SWs will start this baby?<br><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Any
experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?<br></span></b><br>Thanks!<br><br>Jeff</span></font></p></blockquote><div><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">-- </span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="3" color="black"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="3" color="black"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">"we go where powerlines don't"</span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="3" color="black"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New""><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a></span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="3" color="black"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">offgridsolar@sti.net</a></span></font></b></strong></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><strong><b><font face="Courier New" size="3" color="black"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Courier New"">text 209 813 0060</span></font></b></strong></pre></div></blockquote><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br><br><br></span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List rules & etiquette:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Check out or update participant bios:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre></blockquote><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br><br></span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List rules & etiquette:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Check out or update participant bios:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre></blockquote><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br><br></span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List rules & etiquette:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Check out or update participant bios:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre></blockquote><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"><br><br><br></span></font></p><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">_______________________________________________</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">List rules & etiquette:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt">Check out or update participant bios:</span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></font></pre><pre style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Courier New" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:10pt"> </span></font></pre></blockquote><p
class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12pt;margin-left:0.5in"><font
face="Calibri" size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt"> </span></font></p><div><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">-- <br>~~~~~~~~~~~</span></font></p><div><p
class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0.5in"><font face="Calibri"
size="2" color="black"><span style="font-size:11pt">Jeff
Clearwater<br>Village Power Design<br><a
href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">linkedin</a> <br><a
href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a><br>cell
- </span></font><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content"><font
color="#505050"><span style="color:rgb(80,80,80)">413-559-9763</span></font></span><font
color="#505050"><span style="color:rgb(80,80,80)"><br><span
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></font></p></div></div></div>
<br>
<fieldset
class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"
rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer
noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a
href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a
href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div>
<br clear="all">
<div><br></div>
-- <br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div
dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="Arial,
sans-serif">Chris Schaefer\u2019s<br></font></span><a
href="http:www.solarandwindfx.com" style="font-size:12.8px"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><img
src="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png"
style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125); font-family: Arial, sans-serif;
font-size: 10pt;" moz-do-not-send="true" height="40" width="200"></a><br><i><span
style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span
style="font-size:9pt">Tel/Fax
585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size:12px"><br></span></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt"><font
color="#1f497d"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">5115
South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br></font></font></span></i><i
style="font-size:12.8px"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a
href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a>
~ E-mail: <span style="color:blue"><a
href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p><p
style="text-align:center"><i><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img
src="http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg"
moz-do-not-send="true" height="56" width="200"><br></span></i></p>
<p style="text-align:center"><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Thomas
Jefferson,
the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will
cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and
give
to those who would not."</span><span
style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote>
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