<p>This is why I use the XW! They start just about anything and they are one 6.8KW inverter, not multiple like the Radian. I do like the radian and use it. For large motors, XW is hard to beat. The battery needs to be at least 800 AH for this large motor app.</p>
<pre><strong><span>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
<p>On Mon, 29 Jul 2019 08:49:39 -0700, Jeff Clearwater <jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px; border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"><!-- html ignored --><!-- head ignored --> <!-- meta ignored --><span>Hi Chris,<br /> <br /> Thanks so much for the reference. I still am at an impasse. I have an unhappy customer and want to proceed cautiously - Tech support at Radian will only promise 1/2hp per 4 KW radian module - so only 1.5 HP for an 8048 - It's a 2 HP but as you know HP is not a definitive determinant - field experience shows we can do more but it depends on the situation. I asked Outback engineers if they could work with me in taking field data like inrush etc to determine more exactly. This particular sewage macerator has high head.<br /> <br /> I called the control panel manufacturer for the sewage pump (attached) and they said they couldn't add soft start to a single phase unit. Internet research shows you can't do much with single phase with the standard VFD (variable frequency drive) but there are other electronic approaches but I'm not sure they will work with the existing control panel.<br /> <br /> Anyone else with experience that might be relevant? Thanks!<br /> <br /> And thanks again Chris I will make that call - Thanks!<br /> <br /> Jeff<br /> <br /> Chris Schaefer wrote on 7/29/19 8:39 AM:</span><br /> <br />
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<div dir="ltr">I've been following this post with great interest. I was looking at an off-grid project a couple years back that was being run entirely by large diesel generators and had two massive AC units where the LRA was 104 Amps. I found a company that makes what amounts to a soft start. I don't recall the engineer/owners name but he was very knowledgeable. His number is 813-601-0947 and web site is <a href="http://gen-pro.biz">gen-pro.biz</a>. To finish the client never made the switch from generator to solar so I can't say if these units work. Hope this provides another option.
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<div>Sincerely,</div>
<div>Christopher</div>
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<p style="text-align: center;"><em><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br /></span></span></em><em style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br /></span></span></span></em><em style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/"><span style="color: blue;">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a> ~ E-mail: <span style="color: blue;"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></em></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><em><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><img src="cid:39cd5deb7c2bd6020449da4b680ba39c@sti.net" alt="" width="200" height="56" /><br /></span></em></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: black;">Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."</span></p>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Jul 26, 2019 at 4:15 PM Jeff Clearwater <<a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div><span>Hey Jerry,<br /> <br /> I think the issue is capacitor start motors can't handle VFDs. but there are other approaches to soft start - still learning. Thanks for the reference!<br /> <br /> Best,<br /> <br /> Jeff<br /> <br /> Jerry Shafer wrote on 7/26/19 12:59 PM:</span><br /> <br />
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<div dir="auto">Wrenches
<div dir="auto">I have quite a few freq drives on single phase, the controller came from ABB, the pic attached is reference only, it was for a AC chiller grid connected not off grid but the controller works either way </div>
<div dir="auto">Jerry</div>
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<div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 12:47 PM Jeff Clearwater <<a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com">jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div><span>Thanks Chris!<br /> <br /> Unfortunately I'm finding that unless you build an integrated control - motor combo that can soft start like Franklin did - the majority of single phase motors can't use soft start. That is probably a 3-phase motor in that pump that they have an inverter for in the controls - or they used a shaded pole or spit capacitor single phase motor which can use soft start - at least that is what my initial research and phone call to the pump control company has thus far revealed.<br /> <br /> Apparently you can play with the voltage-amperage tradeoffs when you have the 3 magnetic fields interaction - single phase doesn't allow you much room to wiggle.<br /> <br /> I do see single phase soft-starts on the market - still researching but that's my initial findings.<br /> <br /> Anyone know differently?<br /> <br /> Thanks!<br /> <br /> Jeff<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chris@OasisMontana.com">chris@OasisMontana.com</a> wrote on 7/26/19 9:27 AM:</span><br /> <br />
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span>Here at the Oasis home/office, we have a <span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461SpellE">Goulds</span> 3 hp 240VAC soft start pump (#18GS30, w/ Franklin motor HS09970 and #3AS30 <span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461SpellE">Aquavar</span> Solo controller); it's been running off of my 2011 Radian GS8048 since 2016, when I had to drill a new well (the water table is dropping) and pump from about 300 ft. depth.<span> </span>I have 3500 ft. of drip irrigation, a big garden and the usual domestic water loads.<span> </span>It's worked flawlessly since its inception, and I cannot speak more highly of <span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461SpellE">Goulds</span> pumps.<span> </span>My first one lasted 23 years (it was a 1.5HP model).<span> </span></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span>Best,</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span>Chris Daum</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span>Oasis Montana Inc.</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span>406-777-4309 or 4321</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span>406-777-4309 fax</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: medium;"><span><a href="http://www.oasismontana.com"><span style="color: #0563c1;"><span style="color: #0563c1;">www.oasismontana.com</span></span></a> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-size: medium;"><span></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span>From:</span></span></strong><span style="color: black;"><span> RE-wrenches <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Dana<br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, July 26, 2019 9:34 AM<br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></strong> 'Jeff Clearwater' <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com"><jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com></a>; 'RE-wrenches' <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Century Gothic'; font-size: large;"><span>Yes I have used soft starts offgrid with SW & VFX for 15+ years, in spite of doing load evaluations & others installing what ever they normally used. It has been a great rescue device. Well pump, 2 dish washers, booster pump, etc.</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Century Gothic'; font-size: large;"><span>Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. </span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Century Gothic'; font-size: large;"><span>C - 208.721.7003 <a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a></span></span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Century Gothic'; font-size: large;"><span>Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374</span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Century Gothic'; font-size: large;"><span>NABCEP # 051112-136 <a href="http://www.solarwork.com">www.solarwork.com</a></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Century Gothic'; font-size: large;"><span>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><strong><span style="color: green; font-family: Webdings; font-size: x-large;"><span style="font-size: 18pt; font-family: Webdings; color: green; font-weight: bold;">P</span></span></strong><span style="color: navy; font-family: Helvetica;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,sans-serif; color: navy;"> </span></span><span style="color: green; font-family: Arial; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: green;">Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span></span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica,sans-serif;"></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; color: windowtext; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></span></strong><span style="color: black;"><span style="color: windowtext;"> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></strong>Jeff Clearwater<br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></strong> Friday, July 26, 2019 8:04 AM<br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></strong> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></strong> [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hey Wrenches,<br /><br />Anyone have success using soft-start modules on well and sewage pumps to lower the surge for off-grid inverters?<br /><br />The baby we are trying to tame is a 2 HP 15 amp, 53 LRA Omnivore Grinder Pump - LSG200 series - single phase 230 Vac.<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Jeff<br /><br /><br />~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Jeff Clearwater<br />Village Power Design<br /><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/">linkedin</a> <br /><a href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a><br />cell - </span></span><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content"><span style="color: #505050;"><span style="color: #505050;">413-559-9763</span></span></span><span style="color: #505050;"><span style="color: #505050;"><br /><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br />Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/26/19 6:32 AM:<br /><br /></span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">Thanks Ray and Jerry,<br /><br />Great to hear from you both with your years of combined experience :)</span></span></strong><br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">So yes looking at the 5 sec has me switching back to a trusty Radian - <span style="text-decoration: underline;">even then from what you are saying it may not work.</span></span></strong><br /><br />And you are right Ray - Outback is careful to rate the "overload capability" in KVA rather than KW due most likely to voltage sag of course.<br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">So this 53 LRA 2 HP motor - if I can only trust the 5 second (50 A) might not start - especially with other loads on the system?</span></strong><br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">RADIAN SURGE RATINGS:</span></strong><br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Maximum Output Current</span></strong> <br />1 ms peak 100 Amps AC at 240 VAC, 200 Amps AC at 120 VAC<br />100 ms RMS 70.7 Amps AC at 240 VAC<br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Overload Capability</span></strong><br />100 ms surge 16.97 kVa<br />5 seconds 12 kVa<br />30 minute 9 kVa<br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Other's experience with 2 HP sewage pump or well pump motors on a Radian?<br /><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Jeff</span></strong><br /><br /><br />Ray wrote on 7/25/19 5:48 PM:<br /><br /></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I only look at the 5 sec and 30 sec surge ratings to get an idea what an inverter can really do in the real world. All those millisecond ratings/ in rush current specs won't get a pump or motor started, and will basically just get you into trouble. The reason they have those ratings in amps and not watts, is that the voltage craters during that 100mS surge.</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I can't tell you how many times we tried to start a pump, compressor, or large table saw, and the inverter just shut off, even though the "in rush current" was within the theoretical inverter capacity. Actual Wrench list testimonials are much more valuable than those arcane specs.</span></span></p>
<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Ray Walters</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Remote Solar</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">303 505-8760</span></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">On 7/25/19 5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-weight: bold;">Hey There Wrenches,</span></span></strong><br /><br />So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT double the surge ratings of a single SW.<br /><br />But that brings me to my second question:<br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;"><br />What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum Inrush or LRA - 1ms? 100ms? 1 sec?</span></strong><br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Your engineering wisdom welcomed!</span></strong><br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Jeff<br /><br /><br /><br />Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:<br /><br /></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Thanks for the tip! I'll check the firmware.<br /><br />Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:<br /><br /></span></span></p>
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<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hi Jeff,</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">I am not going to guess if this will work, it should. I use XW's because they start anything I have come across.</span></span></p>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same firmware. There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their development.</span></span></p>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">"we go where powerlines don't"</span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a></span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a></span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">text 209 813 0060</span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<p style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater <a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com"><jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com></a> wrote:</span></span></p>
<blockquote style="border-top: none; border-right: none; border-bottom: none; border-left: 1.5pt solid #1010ff; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt; margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Hey Esteemed Wrenches,<br /><br />So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) Schneider SW for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.<br /><br />But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is only rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a whopping kick - probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating.<br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">The SW has the following surge capability:</span></strong><br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:</span></strong><br />Continuous <span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">- 15.2</span> Amps 3700 Watts<br /><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">30 Minutes - 18.3</span> Amps 4400 Watts<br /><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">5 Secs</span> - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts<br /><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">Max (100ms?) - 41</span> Amps - 9840 Watts<br /><br />Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby?<br /><br /><strong><span style="font-weight: bold;">Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?<br /></span></strong><br />Thanks!<br /><br />Jeff</span></span></p>
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<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">"we go where powerlines don't"</span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a></span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a></span></span></strong></strong></pre>
<pre style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><strong><strong><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: medium;"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">text 209 813 0060</span></span></strong></strong></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /><br /><br /></span></span></p>
<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List rules & etiquette:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Check out or update participant bios:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span></blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /><br /></span></span></p>
<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List rules & etiquette:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Check out or update participant bios:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span></blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /><br /></span></span></p>
<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List rules & etiquette:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Check out or update participant bios:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span></blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"><br /><br /><br /></span></span></p>
<span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">_______________________________________________</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Change listserver email address & settings:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">List rules & etiquette:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Check out or update participant bios:</span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Courier New'; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"> </span></span></blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">-- <br />~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left: 0.5in;"><span style="color: black; font-family: Calibri; font-size: small;"><span style="font-size: 11pt;">Jeff Clearwater<br />Village Power Design<br /><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/">linkedin</a> <br /><a href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a><br />cell - </span></span><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content"><span style="color: #505050;"><span style="color: #505050;">413-559-9763</span></span></span><span style="color: #505050;"><span style="color: #505050;"><br /><span class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461postbox-detected-content">~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span></span></p>
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<pre>_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="gmail-m_-8117763466957678007m_-1621553450961946461moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
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_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> </blockquote>
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_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> </blockquote>
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<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Chris Schaefer's<br /></span></span><a style="font-size: 12.8px;" href="http:www.solarandwindfx.com"><img style="color: #1f497d; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;" src="cid:39cd5deb7c2bd6020449da4b680ba39c@sti.net" alt="" width="200" height="40" /></a><br /><em><span style="font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-size: 9pt;">Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size: 12px;"><br /></span></span></em><em style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="color: #1f497d;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br /></span></span></span></em><em style="font-size: 12.8px;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com"><span style="color: blue;">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a> ~ E-mail: <span style="color: blue;"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></em></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><em><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"><img src="cid:39cd5deb7c2bd6020449da4b680ba39c@sti.net" alt="" width="200" height="56" /><br /></span></em></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: black;">Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."</span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #1f497d;"></span></p>
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