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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Yes I have used soft starts offgrid with SW & VFX for 15+ years, in spite of doing load evaluations & others installing what ever they normally used. It has been a great rescue device. Well pump, 2 dish washers, booster pump, etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 1.0pt 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#002060'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>C - 208.721.7003 dana@solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>NABCEP # 051112-136 <a href="http://www.solarwork.com"><span style='color:blue'>www.solarwork.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span></u><u><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:green'>Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jeff Clearwater<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, July 26, 2019 8:04 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Soft Start Modules for Well and Sewage Pumps?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Hey Wrenches,<br><br>Anyone have success using soft-start modules on well and sewage pumps to lower the surge for off-grid inverters?<br><br>The baby we are trying to tame is a 2 HP 15 amp, 53 LRA Omnivore Grinder Pump - LSG200 series - single phase 230 Vac.<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>Jeff<br><br><br>~~~~~~~~~~~<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Jeff Clearwater<br>Village Power Design<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/">linkedin</a> <br><a href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a><br>cell - <span class=postbox-detected-content><span style='color:#505050'>413-559-9763</span></span><span style='color:#505050'><br><span class=postbox-detected-content>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><br>Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/26/19 6:32 AM:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>Thanks Ray and Jerry,<br><br>Great to hear from you both with your years of combined experience :)</b><br><br><b>So yes looking at the 5 sec has me switching back to a trusty Radian - <u>even then from what you are saying it may not work.</u></b><br><br>And you are right Ray - Outback is careful to rate the "overload capability" in KVA rather than KW due most likely to voltage sag of course.<br><br><b>So this 53 LRA 2 HP motor - if I can only trust the 5 second (50 A) might not start - especially with other loads on the system?</b><br><br><b>RADIAN SURGE RATINGS:</b><br><br><b>Maximum Output Current</b> <br>1 ms peak 100 Amps AC at 240 VAC, 200 Amps AC at 120 VAC<br>100 ms RMS 70.7 Amps AC at 240 VAC<br><br><b>Overload Capability</b><br>100 ms surge 16.97 kVa<br>5 seconds 12 kVa<br>30 minute 9 kVa<br><br><b>Other's experience with 2 HP sewage pump or well pump motors on a Radian?<br><br>Thanks!<br><br>Jeff</b><br><br><br>Ray wrote on 7/25/19 5:48 PM:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p style='margin-left:.5in'>I only look at the 5 sec and 30 sec surge ratings to get an idea what an inverter can really do in the real world. All those millisecond ratings/ in rush current specs won't get a pump or motor started, and will basically just get you into trouble. The reason they have those ratings in amps and not watts, is that the voltage craters during that 100mS surge.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'>I can't tell you how many times we tried to start a pump, compressor, or large table saw, and the inverter just shut off, even though the "in rush current" was within the theoretical inverter capacity. Actual Wrench list testimonials are much more valuable than those arcane specs.<o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Remote Solar<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>303 505-8760<o:p></o:p></pre><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On 7/25/19 5:15 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b>Hey There Wrenches,</b><br><br>So be advised that after a little research the SW dual stack will NOT double the surge ratings of a single SW.<br><br>But that brings me to my second question:<br><b><br>What inverter surge rating should one refer to when looking at maximum Inrush or LRA - 1ms? 100ms? 1 sec?</b><br><br><b>Your engineering wisdom welcomed!</b><br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Jeff<br><br><br><br>Jeff Clearwater wrote on 7/23/19 8:27 PM:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Thanks for the tip! I'll check the firmware.<br><br>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote on 7/22/19 9:11 AM:<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p style='margin-left:.5in'>Hi Jeff,<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'>I am not going to guess if this will work, it should. I use XW's because they start anything I have come across.<o:p></o:p></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'>If you do this, make sure but SW's have the latest and same firmware. There were problems with stacked SW's early on in their development.<o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-family:"Courier New"'>text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre><p style='margin-left:.5in'>On Mon, 22 Jul 2019 07:26:07 -0700, Jeff Clearwater <a href="mailto:jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com"><jeffc@villagepowerdesign.com></a> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Hey Esteemed Wrenches,<br><br>So I recently built a power trailer with a single 4 KW (4048) Schneider SW for a client with a moderate cabin lifestyle.<br><br>But he lives on a high hill and even though his 2 HP Macerator is only rated at 15 amps continuous that baby starts up with a whopping kick - probably close to or at it's 53 Amps Locked Rotor rating.<br><br><b>The SW has the following surge capability:</b><br><br><b>SW 4048 Rated @ 240 Volts:</b><br>Continuous <span class=postbox-detected-content>- 15.2</span> Amps 3700 Watts<br><span class=postbox-detected-content>30 Minutes - 18.3</span> Amps 4400 Watts<br><span class=postbox-detected-content>5 Secs</span> - 29.2 Amps 7000 Watts<br><span class=postbox-detected-content>Max (100ms?) - 41</span> Amps - 9840 Watts<br><br>Can I be confidant that 2 stacked SWs will start this baby?<br><br><b>Any experience with similar macerators - or simply educated guesses?<br></b><br>Thanks!<br><br>Jeff<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:.5in'> <o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></span></strong></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><strong><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>text 209 813 0060</span></strong><o:p></o:p></pre></div></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><br><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a 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by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a 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settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>-- <br>~~~~~~~~~~~<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Jeff Clearwater<br>Village Power Design<br><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-clearwater-0622a312/">linkedin</a> <br><a href="http://www.villagepowerdesign.com">www.villagepowerdesign.com</a><br>cell - <span class=postbox-detected-content><span style='color:#505050'>413-559-9763</span></span><span style='color:#505050'><br><span class=postbox-detected-content>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></body></html>