<div dir="ltr"><div>Hello Wrenches,<br></div><div><br></div><div>Does anyone have a good way to get expert tech support for these batteries? Calling general Outback tech support has been terrible, they really have no idea about these batteries. Long wait times to talk to people who aren't ready to answer questions about this product. I keep getting conflicting information. </div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Apr 22, 2019 at 11:07 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <<a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p>This case also sounds like the classic loss of battery capacity as Larry hinted. The genset is running too often. Time for a load test. --Dave</p>
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<p>On Mon, 22 Apr 2019 08:40:51 -0700, Starlight Solar Power Systems <<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com" target="_blank">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>> wrote:</p>
<blockquote type="cite" style="padding-left:5px;border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;width:100%">Hi Glenn,
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<div>Simply because he specified the energy removed during the time period was about 6kWh. The 100Hr rate capacity for this cell is 1150Ah or about 55kWh of storage in the bank. 55kWh/100 = about 550W which are the claimed overnight loads. Using the 20Hr rate (960AH) would indicate higher loads or a greater percentage of capacity loss. I was just trying to give a more accurate consumption total to compare voltage.</div>
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<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br><span>Larry Crutcher</span><br><span>Starlight Solar Power Systems</span><br><br></div>
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<div>On Apr 19, 2019, at 4:14 PM, Glenn Burt <<a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com" target="_blank">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi Larry,</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I am curious why you would use the 100Hr rate for this approximation and not the 20 or 24Hr one, since that is the period in which Mac is reporting the anomaly. Happy to learn the details!</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks,</div>
<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Glenn<span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><strong>From:</strong><span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches <<a style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span><strong>On Behalf Of<span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span></strong>Starlight Solar Power Systems<br><strong>Sent:</strong><span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, April 19, 2019 3:10 PM<br><strong>To:</strong><span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches <<a style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><strong>Subject:</strong><span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Only removing 6kWh from 46kWh of storage should not be able to produce the voltage sag to trigger AGS. That's only about 13% at a 100Hr rate. Voltage should be no where near that point. Have you verified actual voltage when the AGS is triggered? Loose wiring or terminal corrosion can cause voltage drop but I would think that an easy find/repair you would have checked.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Saying the battery easily charges to 100% worries me as sulfated batteries do that. Healthy LA batteries take many hours to reach full saturation. Has cell voltage been compared for non-uniformity? Has the equalization charge been performed? </div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I am not a fan of the unusual low voltages that Outback prescribes for EnergyCells and seriously wonder how these voltages can properly maintain these cells. CV is below the point where balanced O2 and H2 evolution takes place. But, thats off point.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><br>Larry Crutcher<br>Starlight Solar Power Systems</span></div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis <<a style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" target="_blank">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hello Wrenches,</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via Optics. Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 kWh at C20.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves. We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used from the battery bank. I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">As per Outback:</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). </div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 hr absorb time) every day. The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">The load on the system is pretty consistent. They use between 400 and 600W throughout the night.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these batteries are degraded. What corrective changes can I make to get better performance?</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as well.</div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Thanks as always for your expertise<br clear="all"></div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">--<span class="gmail-m_8262920802568163365Apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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<div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Mac Lewis<br><br><br></div>
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<div>-- <br>
<pre> </pre>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div><br></div><div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div>Mac Lewis<br><br><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><p align="left"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>