<div dir="ltr">Thanks for all of the comments. My big question is <u>do these batteries operate at lower voltages than a standard lead battery</u>. From what I'm gathering from this list, they do not. I am fairly certain its a battery problem, in fact, I think that there may be a bad cell as Alan suggests.<div><br></div><div>As far as Flexnet DC calibration, I do think this system is calibrated. We get to charge voltage and end amps daily and it corresponds to 100% SOC. The solar keeps up with load easily esp with this generator run-time. We are making about 130% of what is being used.</div><div><br></div><div>The AGS start is done the "standard" way through the Aux relay on the master, not via FNDC relay. I haven't used that relay because calibration issues are so prevalent.</div><div><br></div><div>I think its back to the basics with cell testing.</div><div><br></div><div>All of the comments are very much appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 9:49 PM Darryl Thayer <<a href="mailto:darylsolar1@gmail.com">darylsolar1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Jay has a real strong point. If you are near low voltage low state of charge. Two or 4 hrs from a 4kw array is only 8 to 16 kwh nowhere near 46 kwh. Given the recomended max charge rate is C/5 you would have to be charging for days</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 19, 2019, 10:20 PM John Blittersdorf <<a href="mailto:john.blittersdorf@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">john.blittersdorf@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Mac,<div> If there is a TriMetric or charge controllers, you can get min/max voltages each day or since last reset. I have found that is very useful info when large, short duration loads hit. ie well pump. I would find on one of my 24 v systems that an 18 or 19 v min would indicate that the well pump went on when the batteries were quite low and pulled the voltage down to low battery cutoff. If the system does not shut down, you might see a voltage lower than the 2 minute setpoint. I think the FlexNet DC also records minimum voltage. And be sure that the gen start trigger is not the flexnet as that is big trouble. </div><div><br></div><div>John Blittersdorf.</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Apr 19, 2019 at 8:06 PM Glenn Burt <<a href="mailto:glenn.burt@glbcc.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">glenn.burt@glbcc.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US"><div class="gmail-m_7910727817764317860m_-1434122182858119547m_-2890059627095548038m_-3696040241274967432gmail-m_8885096482949104865WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">Hi Larry,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I am curious why you would use the 100Hr rate for this approximation and not the 20 or 24Hr one, since that is the period in which Mac is reporting the anomaly. Happy to learn the details!<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Glenn <u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Starlight Solar Power Systems<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 19, 2019 3:10 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Operating Voltages Outback RE High Capacity Battery<u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">Mac,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Only removing 6kWh from 46kWh of storage should not be able to produce the voltage sag to trigger AGS. That\u2019s only about 13% at a 100Hr rate. Voltage should be no where near that point. Have you verified actual voltage when the AGS is triggered? Loose wiring or terminal corrosion can cause voltage drop but I would think that an easy find/repair you would have checked.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Saying the battery easily charges to 100% worries me as sulfated batteries do that. Healthy LA batteries take many hours to reach full saturation. Has cell voltage been compared for non-uniformity? Has the equalization charge been performed? <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I am not a fan of the unusual low voltages that Outback prescribes for EnergyCells and seriously wonder how these voltages can properly maintain these cells. CV is below the point where balanced O2 and H2 evolution takes place. But, thats off point.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><br>Larry Crutcher<br>Starlight Solar Power Systems<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif;color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Apr 19, 2019, at 10:27 AM, Mac Lewis <<a href="mailto:maclewis1@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">maclewis1@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Hello Wrenches,<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">We recently inherited an Outback system that I've been keeping an eye on via Optics. Its a dual stack 3648 VFXR, with about 4kW of PV with a single string of EnergyCell 1100RE battery bank (reported to be ~6 months old) ~.46 kWh at C20.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I have been observing how the system functions and how the voltage behaves. We keep getting 2 minute voltage starts on the generator in the middle of the night that don't seem necessary judging from how much energy has been used from the battery bank. I am hesitant to tweak anything because these battery set-points are a bit different than I'm used to.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">As per Outback:<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Absorb Voltage is 55.6V for 2 hours<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Float Voltage is 54.0V<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I've slowly been dropping the 2 minute start voltage to see if there is a bottom, but I'm hesitant to take it much lower (maybe I should). <u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">2 minute start voltage: 44.8 V.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The system easily charges the battery bank to 100% (and easily reached the 2 hr absorb time) every day. The flexnet DC is correctly set up and calibrated.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The load on the system is pretty consistent. They use between 400 and 600W throughout the night.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">An average night, they may use about 6 kWh before the voltage sags below the 2 minute start voltage and it starts the generator.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Just curious if our 2 minute voltage needs to be dropped or if these batteries are degraded. What corrective changes can I make to get better performance?<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I have and will call Outback about this, but I'd like other perspectives as well.<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks as always for your expertise<br clear="all"><u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <u></u><u></u></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Mac Lewis<br><br><br><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(48,90,120)">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </span><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:rgb(104,104,104)">-Sócrates</span></b><b><span style="font-size:12pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><u></u><u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div><br></div><div><font color="#305A78" face="'times new roman', serif"><br></font></div><div><br></div>Mac Lewis<br><br><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:medium;color:rgb(255,153,0)"><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="3"><p align="left"><font color="#000000" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:arial;font-weight:normal;color:rgb(48,90,120)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." </font><span style="font-weight:700;color:rgb(104,104,104)"><font face="'times new roman', serif">-Sócrates</font></span></span></span></font></p></font></b></span></div>