<p>It looks to me the Radian is speced at max altitude of 6,561 feet. I have asked Schneider about the XW series and they agree that there is not anything they can find that spells this out. The 2 different Schneider charge controllers are speced at 6,500 feet.</p>
<p>So for warranty required situations that is what I can find. More later.</p>
<pre><strong><span>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
<a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/" target="_blank">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a>
e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a>
text 209 813 0060</span></strong></pre>
<p>On Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:13:37 +0000, Lones Tuss <ltuss@outbackpower.com> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Outback's Product Warranty is not based or negated by the altitude of the installation. Altitude ratings ensure full spec operation of the equipment up to the stated elevation . As noted in several posts due to thinner air cooling of equipment can be affected. Additional cooling may be required and or additional products to achieve the necessary load requirements. <!-- o ignored --></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Here is the math, well the answer at sea level your body has 14.70 PSI exerted on it, at 10,000 feet you only have 10.163 PSI, reduced air pressure, reduced cooling or heating ability adjusted for standard sea level temp or just over 69%.<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I have done work in Hawaii on the big island up at the summit, it can be warm and very thin air, without air to cool no inverter will perform very well. I have some SMA, FX and Raidians in warm high altitude locations and added extra cooling to compensate for the lack of air. You will hear the cooling fans spinning faster, moving less air at higher altitudes.<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">SMA sunny island does have a 9k plus operating altitude but de-rates at less the 7k.<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">From: Jay Pozner <<a href="mailto:jay@nunatakenergy.com">jay@nunatakenergy.com</a>> <!-- o ignored --></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Date: 4/12/19 10:06 AM (GMT-08:00) <!-- o ignored --></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">To: RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <!-- o ignored --></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems <!-- o ignored --></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We do a fair amount of systems at "altitude". Recently we had an issue with a Radian system at about 10,000'. An 8048 inverter screaming (fans running hard) with just 2000 watts of load. I hounded tech support for two years, and even after switching power modules, etc in the end the techs claim a fairly substantial deration (that I can't quote right now) of inverter performance because of cooling issues. We ultimately added another inverter to the system at the end of last summer. I hope this season we will see a better result. It makes sense, given the difference in air density, but I do scratch my head and wonder why we haven't seen such issues with the older FX's, and some of the older legacy systems?<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I also know that the Midnite classic charge controllers seem to run the fans quite hard as well. I haven't had to replace any of the fans, and the controllers are performing great, but wonder if that will be an issue in the future. It would be great if some manufactures would give us a quality, competitively priced, equipment that is rated for altitude, but I don't think there are that many options out there as of now<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Not to add fuel to the fire... and it's been almost 7 years since I've been with an Inverter manufacturer so here is my .02 cents... So again, I hope I'm not overstepping the boundaries of the Wrenches list. <!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If I remember correctly the main issue with the high altitude installs are some of the components that are used to build the inverter/controllers aren't rated to be used at high altitude, one of the main components that have this issue is the electrolytic capacitors. Of course, the specs vary from component to component. I've seen some rated as low as 8000 ft to some as rated as high as 30,000 ft. It really just depends on the part(s) that the manufacturer used to build the product. <!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As you gain altitude the temperatures and the air pressure decrease, as it was explained to me years ago the problem is with the temperature decrease, this will affect the capacitance of the capacitor. The colder temps will reduce the overall capacitance of the capacitor, just like it will with a battery. <br /> <br /> These caps are generally used to filter noise from circuits, so when these fail, or the capacitance values fall, you don't get the filtering you need and this induces noise into your circuitry possibly causing overall failure or worse, the dreaded intermittent failure. Generally, if the inverters/controllers are kept on and warm, you won't have too many problems, it's when they are in extremely cold temperatures is when you will start having issues. <!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 15.0pt;"><strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;">t</span></strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;">+1.902.597.4020</span><strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;"> </span></strong><strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;">m</span></strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;">+1.206.790.5840</span><strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;"><!-- o ignored --></span></strong></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height: 15.0pt;"><strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;">f</span></strong><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;">+1.902.597.8447 <strong><span style="color: #bb1a1d;">e</span></strong> <a href="mailto:steve@surrette.com"><span style="color: #404040; text-decoration: none;">steve@surrette.com</span></a><!-- o ignored --></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 7:47 AM <<a href="mailto:chris@oasismontana.com">chris@oasismontana.com</a>> wrote:<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">The issue here ulltimately isn't whether it works or not, it's if it's WARRANTED. Some purchasers (in this case the USFS) mandate that all equipment be warranted for high altitudes. And that leaves out several major suppliers.</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><strong><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">From:</span></strong> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <strong>On Behalf Of </strong>Ray<br /> <strong>Sent:</strong> Thursday, April 11, 2019 10:55 PM<br /> <strong>To:</strong> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <strong>Subject:</strong> Re: [RE-wrenches] High altitude off-grid systems<!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">We've had some systems at 11,000 ft plus, for almost 20 years. We have mixtures of Outback, Midnite, Blue Sky, and old Trace equipment. Never any issues with electronics related to altitude. Actually the altitude related system issues are generator derating, and array output exceeding STC ratings on really clear cold days due to the thin atmosphere. The third issue would be installers not being able to catch our breath after jogging back to the truck. </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<pre><span style="color: black;">Ray Walters</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">Remote Solar</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">303 505-8760</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">On 4/11/19 3:39 PM, Dan Fink wrote:</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Hi Chris; I am deeply concerned about this as nearly 100% of the systems I install are at 8000 ft (2500m) or higher. I've never had a problem with warranty claims to Outback or Schneider up to this time. If this is a "new thing" I'd really like to know about it, on list or off. </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">The alitude de-rate stuff seems to involve dialectric ratings on the transformer coils, and low air density for cooling. I think that's all in ANSI.</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; vertical-align: baseline;"><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;">970-672-4342</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 1:28 PM <<a href="mailto:chris@oasismontana.com">chris@oasismontana.com</a>> wrote:</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Hi folks:</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">I am curious as to how many of you sell/install battery/inverter systems at high altitudes? Have you had any particular issues with them? Last year we discovered (in a mostly costly fashion) that Schneider inverters (and also Outback) are not warranted above 6500 ft. </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Magnum inverters are warranted to 15,000 ft max altitude. </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Best,</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Chris Daum</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">Oasis Montana Inc.</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">406-777-4309 or 4321</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">406-777-4309 fax</span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"><a href="http://www.oasismontana.com"><span style="color: #0563c1;">www.oasismontana.com</span></a> </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></p>
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</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;">_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><!-- o ignored --></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; margin-bottom: 12.0pt;"><!-- o ignored --> </p>
<pre><span style="color: black;">_______________________________________________</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a></span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">Change listserver email address & settings:</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a></span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a></span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">List rules & etiquette:</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a></span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;">Check out or update participant bios:</span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
<pre><span style="color: black;"> </span><!-- o ignored --></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><!-- o ignored --></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12.0pt;">_______________________________________________<br /> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br /> <br /> List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"> RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> Change listserver email address & settings:<br /> <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br /> <br /> List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html"> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br /> <br /> List rules & etiquette:<br /> <a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br /> <br /> Check out or update participant bios:<br /> <a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><!-- o ignored --></p>
</blockquote>
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<div>-- <br />
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
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