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<p><font size="+1">The original question was w/r to:</font><b> </b><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The source
interconnection of one or more inverters installed in one
system shall be made at a dedicated circuit breaker or fusible
disconnecting means.</span></i></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">and wh</span><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">ether one disconnect
could be used to disconnect multiple inverters. The inference as
I read it was that there was no other disconnect means for the
inverters in question. <br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">If you use an AC
combiner upstream of the disconnecting means with individual
OCPDs as required, then you have your individual disconnection
and that is required and has been practiced for many code
cycles. </span><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">A circuit breaker OCPD
is a code compliant disconnecting means. </span>I cannot
imagine anyone using an AC combiner method and not using OCPDc.
Using a disconnecting means to then disconnect downstream AFTER
an AC combiner is of course allowed. Chris Warfel<br>
</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"></span><i><span
style="font-family:Verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</span></i></p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/27/2019 1:48 PM, William Miller
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:9c3ea7c57c8a60f8fb6b6af4d5f52976@mail.gmail.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Chris:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
2014 code would require individual disconnecting means prior
to aggregation, i.e. an AC combiner. Therefore your
scenario would not exist.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Wm</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Christopher Warfel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 27, 2019 10:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Multiple inverters</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I know I keep popping up on this, but 2014 makes no sense if
it is saying to connect multiple inverters to one disconnect.
It would be difficult and dangerous to take one out of service
for any reason including replacement. I would that that you'd
have to shut down all the inverters just to replace one. Some
of the large commercial/industrial/utility systems have
hundreds of inverters and there is no way they would install a
system to this interpretation of the NEC.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2/27/2019 12:22 PM, Starlight Solar
Power Systems wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">William, </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It seems this question needs to be
addressed: What is the intended meaning of \u201cinstalled in
one system\u201d in 2014? If you have separate \u201csystems\u201d, they
should not be governed by 705.12. So, at what point does a
\u201csystem\u201d begin and end? PV modules to the disconnect?
...to the load panel? ...to the service entrance?</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Larry</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Feb 25, 2019, at 10:42 PM,
William Miller <<a
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">August:</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
2014 code, which the AHJ for this project is
using, states the following:</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">(<i>1)
Dedicated Overcurrent and Disconnect. The source</i></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">interconnection
of one or more inverters installed in one</span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">system
shall be made at a dedicated circuit breaker or
fusible</span></i></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">disconnecting
means.</span></i></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Note
that the language says, \u201cThe source
interconnection\u2026\u201d (singular), and \u201cat a dedicated
circuit breaker\u2026\u201d(again singular). This makes it
obvious to me that the language says that the
outputs of multiple inverters need to be
aggregated and connected via<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><u>one</u><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>OCPD. I
think the other wrenches missed this point.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Your
input is valuable by contrasting the language of
the 2014 code with that of the 2017 version. The
inclusion of the phrase \u201cEach source\u2026\u201d in the 2017
code completely changes the meaning. Some AHJs
will look to future code versions for clarity even
if they are not yet adopted. I think this is a
good thing, and I really appreciate you bringing
up the new language.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The
article from AEIA magazine ratifies the conclusion
I drew from the 2014 code. Fortunately the AHJ is
misinterpreting the section to allow the more
liberal interpretation, the one that the 2017 code
reflects. I find it best to contact the plan
checker directly, which I did, and we are approved
for multiple OCPDs. By the way, I think that
article is well written and I have book marked it.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
don\u2019t know if the 2014 language was a mistake
corrected in 2107, or what the thinking was of the
authors. Regardless, we live by the language, not
the intent.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Thank
you as well to all who responded.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">August
Goers [mailto:<a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">august@luminalt.com</span></a>]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday,
February 25, 2019 9:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>William
Miller; RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[RE-wrenches] Multiple inverters</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi William - </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">In this case, it is helpful
to look forward to the 2017 NEC for guidance:</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><image001.png></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I believe it's perfectly
fine to have multiple inverter breakers in
your main.</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">August</p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Luminalt</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 8:42
AM William Miller <<a
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">william@millersolar.com</span></a>>
wrote:</p>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
#cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Friends:</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I
have an NEC code question on an upcoming
project. It is a home that has an
existing 8 kW ground-mounted grid-tied
system. The owner wants to add another 10
kW of grid-tied PV. My question is about
705.12, point of connection. Specifically
section (D)(1). That section states:<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">The
source interconnection of one or more
inverters installed in one system shall
be made at a dedicated circuit breaker
or fusible disconnecting means.</span></i></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">So
if there are going to be two inverters on
premise, do the outputs have to be
aggregated to connect via one circuit
breaker? This might be difficult to do as
the exiting inverter is connected via a
different sub-panel than the one that is
planned to receive the new inverter
output.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">This<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/01/16/load-side-pv-connections/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">article</span></a><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>addresses
the question.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I
would be very grateful if any of you can
share any experience you might have in
interpreting this section of the code.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Thanks
in advance.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">William</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
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List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
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