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<p>I know I keep popping up on this, but 2014 makes no sense if it
is saying to connect multiple inverters to one disconnect. It
would be difficult and dangerous to take one out of service for
any reason including replacement. I would that that you'd have to
shut down all the inverters just to replace one. Some of the large
commercial/industrial/utility systems have hundreds of inverters
and there is no way they would install a system to this
interpretation of the NEC.<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/27/2019 12:22 PM, Starlight Solar
Power Systems wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:AC0E68DC-A127-43B5-B1A8-60538D3AC745@starlightsolar.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
William,
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">It seems this question needs to be addressed: What
is the intended meaning of \u201cinstalled in one system\u201d in 2014? If
you have separate \u201csystems\u201d, they should not be governed by
705.12. So, at what point does a \u201csystem\u201d begin and end? PV
modules to the disconnect? ...to the load panel? ...to the
service entrance?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Larry<br class="">
<div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<div class="">On Feb 25, 2019, at 10:42 PM, William Miller
<<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start;
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normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">August:</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The 2014 code, which the
AHJ for this project is using, states the following:</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">(<i class="">1) Dedicated
Overcurrent and Disconnect. The source</i></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">interconnection
of one or more inverters installed in one</span></i></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">system
shall be made at a dedicated circuit breaker or
fusible</span></i></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><i
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">disconnecting
means.</span></i></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Note that the language
says, \u201cThe source interconnection\u2026\u201d (singular), and
\u201cat a dedicated circuit breaker\u2026\u201d(again singular).
This makes it obvious to me that the language says
that the outputs of multiple inverters need to be
aggregated and connected via<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class="">one</u><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>OCPD. I think
the other wrenches missed this point.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Your input is valuable by
contrasting the language of the 2014 code with that of
the 2017 version. The inclusion of the phrase \u201cEach
source\u2026\u201d in the 2017 code completely changes the
meaning. Some AHJs will look to future code versions
for clarity even if they are not yet adopted. I think
this is a good thing, and I really appreciate you
bringing up the new language.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The article from AEIA
magazine ratifies the conclusion I drew from the 2014
code. Fortunately the AHJ is misinterpreting the
section to allow the more liberal interpretation, the
one that the 2017 code reflects. I find it best to
contact the plan checker directly, which I did, and we
are approved for multiple OCPDs. By the way, I think
that article is well written and I have book marked
it.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I don\u2019t know if the 2014
language was a mistake corrected in 2107, or what the
thinking was of the authors. Regardless, we live by
the language, not the intent.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Thank you as well to all
who responded.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">William Miller</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span
style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color:
rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b
class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>August Goers
[mailto:<a href="mailto:august@luminalt.com"
style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">august@luminalt.com</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday,
February 25, 2019 9:07 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>William
Miller; RE-wrenches<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[RE-wrenches] Multiple inverters</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi
William - </div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">In
this case, it is helpful to look forward to the 2017
NEC for guidance:</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span
id="cid:image001.png@01D4CD53.0ED97920"><image001.png></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">I believe it's perfectly fine to have
multiple inverter breakers in your main.</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;"> </p>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">August</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Luminalt</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On
Mon, Feb 25, 2019 at 8:42 AM William Miller <<a
href="mailto:william@millersolar.com"
style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;"
class="" moz-do-not-send="true">william@millersolar.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid;
border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204);
border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt;
margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""
type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Friends:</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">I have an NEC code
question on an upcoming project. It is a home
that has an existing 8 kW ground-mounted
grid-tied system. The owner wants to add
another 10 kW of grid-tied PV. My question is
about 705.12, point of connection.
Specifically section (D)(1). That section
states:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><i class=""><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">The source
interconnection of one or more inverters
installed in one system shall be made at a
dedicated circuit breaker or fusible
disconnecting means.</span></i></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">So if there are going to
be two inverters on premise, do the outputs
have to be aggregated to connect via one
circuit breaker? This might be difficult to
do as the exiting inverter is connected via a
different sub-panel than the one that is
planned to receive the new inverter output.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">This<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="https://iaeimagazine.org/magazine/2014/01/16/load-side-pv-connections/"
target="_blank" style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">article</a><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>addresses
the question.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">I would be very grateful
if any of you can share any experience you
might have in interpreting this section of the
code.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">Thanks in advance.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class="">William</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family:
Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p>
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<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
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