<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi All,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">My 2 cents.<br class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I\u2019ve recently had to do some research for someone who had 16 Full River 400/6v melt down. ( 48v bank, 2-3 yrs old). Both banks, all 16 melted.</div><div class="">In talking with a battery company expert, what I was given is the following: AGM if not charged correctly, especially if they are allowed to sulfate ( under charge), and then charged heavily during hot conditions can melt down. When flooded get sulfated they won\u2019t accept a large charge, current is low. AGM appear to have the opposite reaction which is that they create high resistance but accept current creating lots of heat. They can\u2019t vent the heat ( no caps and if there isn\u2019t enough room around them they can\u2019t expel the heat either. In a sense if they can melt together, they are too close together ) and if there is external heat to contribute then once they get to 40-50C internal they can melt down. I mentioned in a previous post that Full River has an EQ type cycle for batteries that are showing lowered capacity which is a form of sulfation and this EQ is to try and prevent this exact situation. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As to MK, I don\u2019t use them as they have very low cycle life. Those MK 8D AGM are around 700 cycles to 50%, vs Full River or Rolls AGM at around 1300 cycles to 50%. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">VRLA are a pretty tricky compared to flooded. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div class="">peltz power</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Nov 29, 2018, at 8:33 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems <<a href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com" class="">larry@starlightsolar.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Let me confirm what William has shared about Deka/MK 8D AGM batteries; they have a very high failure rate. We saw over 40% fail within 2-3 years of installation. Deka would not own up to the problem and offered no compensation.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Fullriver has been the finest AGM we have ever sold. All DC models are excellent. We especially like the 2 volt L-16\u2019s for high capacity systems. We had one failure, and I know of one other, where L16 batteries went into thermal runaway. The cases welded together. After fully testing the power system that we designed and installed, we found no problem. Fullriver would not offer any help or replacement. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Our installations are 100% battery based. When I do see failures I have many other identical power systems to compare with (in the thousands, we do 5-8 per week) and this helps me make sound judgements about our findings. </div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class=""><span style="orphans: 2; widows: 2;" class="">Larry Crutcher</span><br class=""></div></div></div><br class=""></div><div style="font-size: 17px;" class=""><b class="">3 year old Deka 8D</b></div><div class=""><span id="cid:CA2ADA64-A9C8-4D1F-B509-F723853610C1"><Deka 8D AGM failure_ (2).jpeg></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-variant-east-asian: normal; font-variant-position: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
</div><div style="font-size: 17px;" class=""><b class="">1.5 year old Fullriver L-16</b></div>
<span id="cid:84B65C44-1250-41E5-9816-494F379D33A0"><IMG_0629 (1).jpeg></span></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Nov 28, 2018, at 11:43 PM, William Miller <<a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" class="">william@millersolar.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 16.959999084472656px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Allan:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 16.959999084472656px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">We have had poor luck with the 8D AGM batteries (MK/Deka). Many of them have had short life spans along with swelling, heating and even exploding. Your point about the inefficient footprint is right on.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 16.959999084472656px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I have minimal experience with Full River. I have seen a set fail, but heck, anyone can do that in a hurry.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 16.959999084472656px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">When footprint is an issue, we have gone to racked AGMs, like the Deka Unigy. Now to get higher voltages might require custom racking, but the cells come in lots of sizes and shapes, physically and in capacity. It may be worth checking into the size of a 400 AH Unigy cell and see how they rack up. I don\u2019t have but a smattering of drawings for the models we have purchased, but my cursory look indicates you won\u2019t save on volume or dollars, but you may gain a smaller footprint with some Unigy racks in series.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 8pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: 15.546667098999023px;"><span style="font-size: 12pt; line-height: 16.959999084472656px; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">William</span></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; line-height: normal;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif;" class=""><span id="cid:image002.jpg@01D4876B.C3EB5FA0" class=""><image002.jpg></span><br class="">Lic 773985<br class=""><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: blue;" class="">millersolar.com</span></a><br class="">805-438-5600</span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br class=""><br class="">List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" class="">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">Change listserver email address & settings:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" class="">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html<br class=""><br class="">List rules & etiquette:<br class="">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br class=""><br class="">Check out or update participant bios:<br class="">www.members.re-wrenches.org<br class=""><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></body></html>