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<p>I agree with Allan, I have never done a full load test on a
battery bank. The customers experience usually provides the
necessary info. In this case there is no question the battery
bank needs replacing. Here are the reasons to replace in
summary:</p>
<p>1) Battery wiring in parallel/ then series, with too many
parallel strings</p>
<p>2) Age of the batteries, 5 years is not bad for an average AGM in
even good conditions.<br>
</p>
<p>3) Odd brand not suited for solar, with outrageous life
expectancy claims.<br>
</p>
<p>4) 100 AH, 12 v batteries are just not the right choice for
anything over a single series string. Larger 6 v batteries are
always preferred when possible and have longer cycle life because
of thicker plates.</p>
<p>5) Wide variance in voltages between batteries (13 to 15 v?)</p>
<p>6) Customer's experience: obviously the service call came in,
because the system wasn't performing properly anymore.<br>
</p>
<p>Load testing this mess is just a further waste of everyone's
time. Temporarily rewiring the best batteries into a normal
series/ parallel configuration with maybe 3 strings at most could
regain a bit of performance until the the new set can be
installed.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/21/18 11:40 AM, Sindelar Solar
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:f409c0e9-54dc-56cd-bd6f-448dbd55ecd0@sindelarsolar.com">
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<p>Mick, <br>
</p>
<p>While I fully agree on the importance of a monitor such as the
TriMetric, I'm confused by some of what you've written below. A
TriMet (or any similar monitor for LA) can measure amp-hours
removed and replaced, but it can't measure & display the
battery bank's amp-hour capacity. Only taking the time to drain
the bank at a measured rate will do that, and I have yet to have
a customer want to pay me to do a battery capacity test down to
1.75 vpc at the 20-hour rate - or any rate for that matter. The
TriMet is set up such that the installer tells the TriMet the
battery capacity. In a case such as this, what number would you
program into the TM as the amp-hour capacity? How would you
determine this value?</p>
<p>Thanks, Allan<br>
</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
line-height:normal"><b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New

Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
 New
Roman"">Allan Sindelar</span></b><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New

Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times

New Roman""><br>
</span><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Times
New

Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times
New
 Roman"">allan@sindelarsolar.com</span></a><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New

Roman",serif;mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times

New Roman""><br>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times

New

Roman",serif;
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times

New Roman"">NABCEP Certified PV Installation
Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span
style="mso-bidi-font-weight:bold">Positive Energy, Inc<span
class="GramE">.</span></span><br>
<b>505 780-2738 cell</b></span><span
style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New

Roman",serif;
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New Roman""><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>On 11/20/2018 11:28 PM, Mick Abraham
wrote:<br>
> Hello, Drake & All~<br>
><br>
> Drake described his service dilemma about batteries
bought elsewhere & whether to correct the original
hinky pack wiring (copied below). My reply below may seem
cynical & I may seem too eager to declare the existing
battery as: "Failed". Call me jaded.<br>
><br>
> Mick's $0.02 is: If there's no amp-hour monitor in
the system, I suggest you first try to persuade the
homeowner to buy a metering shunt & a modest amp-hour
meter such as the Tri-Metric--which could be used to
measure & display the battery bank's amp-hour
capacity. If the client won't approve that expenditure
(& hourly labor for explanations), the service tech is
hamstrung. Nobody can measure the health of a battery bank
by just looking at it or talking about it...and clients
sometimes receive the inevitable "battery bad news" if
they are shown the diminished capacity on a digital
display after an equitably managed "pump & dump".<br>
><br>
> Your thought, Drake, of holding back on any re-wiring
of the battery pack...seems prudent...until the first set
of amp-hour measurements are recorded as a baseline. From
there...a common pattern is a series of attempted
remediation efforts--all for pay, of course--until the
homeowner acknowledges that it's time to start afresh. <br>
><br>
> Oops, I left out an important step: getting a read on
whether the client has the money for new batteries or not.
I'm personally terrible at getting that reconnaissance
done early enough. If the client isn't materially blessed
to be able to get new batteries, they might be better off
spending limited funds on fuel for the engine generator
instead of on battery testing & tutorials.<br>
><br>
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.abrahamsolar.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">www.abrahamsolar.com</a><br>
><br>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
> From: Drake <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org></a><br>
> To: RE-wrenches <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
> Cc: <br>
> Bcc: <br>
> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2018 11:41:17 -0500<br>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Batt Cap AGM<br>
> Hello Wrenches,<br>
><br>
> An owner of an existing system has a bank of
twenty, 100 AH, 12 V Deep cycle batteries of the Batcap
brand.<br>
><br>
> The bank is made up of four sets of 5 batteries
in parallel to produce 500 AH battery sets at 12 V. These
four parallel sets are then wired in series to give a 48
V nominal bank.<br>
><br>
> The battery voltages vary from around 13 to 15
volts. The bank is about 5 years old. The CEO of Batcap
told the system owner that these batteries have lasted up
to 30 years in solar applications, so he has high
expectations for these batteries being around for a while.<br>
><br>
> My first impulse is to rewire the bank in a
normal series - parallel configuration. But there are too
many strings to do this without a bus bar. Besides, the
batteries are likely damaged, and rewiring them might
cause the bank to exhibit unsuspected problems. How much
money is worth putting into this bank? $0?<br>
><br>
> The owner seems like a reliable guy who likely
hired the wrong installer. He could use some help. What
would you do in this situation? Rewire the bank, leave it
well enough alone or run for the hills.<br>
><br>
> Thanks,<br>
><br>
> Drake <br>
</o:p></p>
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