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<p>I think if we showed those pictures to a THHN wire manufacturer,
they would not approve of deforming the insulation to that
degree. We are also talking about load centers with the same
bending space available to the factory as we electricians have. <br>
</p>
<p>I also want to point out that Midnite has been very proactive
with their wire bending techniques. I posted a picture of their
work as an example of 'how to do it'. I'm now calling on other
manufacturers to do the same.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/16/18 11:21 AM,
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:bob@midnitesolar.com">bob@midnitesolar.com</a> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a0afd9ab-9278-bdf0-3f3a-07d334326022@midnitesolar.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<br>
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<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Ray is coming at this from an
electricians viewpoint. He is correct if talking about wiring
outside of a UL or ETL listed product. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">The reason for wide radii in
wiring is so the wires can be rerouted and terminated a few
times. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">8 times the diameter is a very
large bend radii and would never fly inside a product, so why
can a manufacturer do it? <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Copper has the tendency to work
harden when bending back and forth. That will damage the
current carrying characteristics of a wire. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Bending a wire once does not work
harden them. The insulation can get scrunched depending on the
actual bend radii, but it is <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">only cosmetic after one tight
bend. There are no actual cracks that would jeopardize the
insulation integrity. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">We have investigated this and
determined it to be cosmetic in nature for a single bend. That
said, I don\u2019t like it either <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">because it makes installers
nervous and doesn\u2019t look good. The tight wire bends are no
different from putting tight bends <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">on a sheet metal copper busbar.
We do this all the time and always have. Testing shows that it
does not constrict electrical flow. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">If you straighten that same
copper busbar and bend it again, it is likely to break in
half. That is work hardening to the extreme. </span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">So, there is no violation from
tight wire bending inside a listed box. A listed box does not
have the same restrictions as the NEC. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Believe me, I too do not like
zero radii bends and we have custom made pliers that give the
wire a gradual radii, but that is cosmetics only. <br>
</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">The wire is not actually damaged
unless you straighten it up and re-bend it. We do not do that!</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Thanks,</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">Robin Gudgel</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 11pt;">MidNite Solar</span></font><font
size="+3"><br>
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"></span></font><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><br>
<br>
<br>
</span>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/15/2018 11:27 AM, Will White
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CACdX-9nNudeHk0A8ZrsFiQV7Ks=ntpxRxvBx-fqX2+Wk0cADrQ@mail.gmail.com">
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charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">NEC doesn't apply to the interior components of a
UL listed device although I do see your point. I'm assuming
they designed it taking that bend into consideration.</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Mon, Oct 15, 2018 at 1:20 PM Ray <<a
href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" moz-do-not-send="true">ray@solarray.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Greetings;</p>
<p>I've noticed several of the factory wired power panels
over the years from Magnum, Outback, Midnite, Etc are
not compliant with NEC 300.34 wire bending radius.
(Radius should not be less than 8 times the diameter)
Basically they should look like sweep bends in PVC
conduit, not plumbing. Here's a pic from a recent
Magnum system</p>
<p><img src="cid:part1.9F7CF1C5.D4F7E01B@solarray.com"
alt="" moz-do-not-send="true" width="582" height="479"></p>
<p>You can see the kinks in the insulation on the inside
of the bend, and the color fading on the outside from
being overstretched. Some might think this is neat
work, but its actually permanent wire damage and a code
violation. Imagine the strain on the copper inside. <br>
</p>
<p>Midnite is very proactive and has improved, I ask that
Magnum do the same and soon.</p>
<p>Thanks,<br>
</p>
<pre class="m_-6216361868692380616moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
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