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--></style></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal>El Sid 10W DC pumps are great but in my experience they did not have the flow and head \u201coomph\u201d for long runs for the zones on our second and third floors with our hydronic heating system (wood boiler). In our off grid house we installed El Sid\u2019s on all 4 zones in the late 1980\u2019s. We had recurring problems with the 2<sup>nd</sup> and 3<sup>rd</sup> floor zones (long runs) becoming air bound repeatedly after a couple of months of heavy use in the winter. Basement and 1<sup>st</sup> floor zones did not have this problem. I consulted with some plumbing and heating folks and ended up replacing the 2<sup>nd</sup> and 3<sup>rd</sup> floor zone El Sid\u2019s with 115VAC Grundfos circ pumps. Problem solved, no more air lock problems. I had a hard time understanding that while the El Sid\u2019s worked OK on the longer, higher head zones but did not have the power to avoid the air lock situation in our heating system. One of the plumbers explained it to me twenty something years ago BUT I don\u2019t recall his explanation now. Maybe some wrench with more hydronic chops than I can explain it.</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Dave Palumbo</p><p class=MsoNormal>Independent Power</p><p class=MsoNormal>Hyde Park, VT</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Sent from <a href="https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986">Mail</a> for Windows 10</p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div style='mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='border:none;padding:0in'><b>From: </b><a href="mailto:bbassett2@gmail.com">Bradley Bassett</a><br><b>Sent: </b>Friday, September 7, 2018 10:09 PM<br><b>To: </b><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a><br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace</p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I have multiple ElSid pumps in my heating system which have been running for just about 15 years without the slightest hitch. At 10W each they are hard to beat, but they do need DC so a power supply is needed. I ran them off 24VDC direct from the battery for the first 10 years and from a small MeanWell power supply for the last 5 years. My only complaint is that when there are 4 of them running it sounds like a miniature WWII bomber. No loud enough to hear outside of the utility room but something to keep in mind.</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Brad Bassett</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>AEE Solar</p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Brad</p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 7:33 AM Drake <<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>> wrote:</p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal>Dana, <br><br>Your comments, and other comments on this list have made me see the light. We are going to go with a boiler. <br><br>What is the best source of equipment for this application these days? <br><br>Many years ago, I helped install a system in Colorado using El Sid pumps, with guidance from you, if you recall this ancient history. <br><br>Cheers,<br><br>Drake <br><br><a name="m_-8249959848673430069__MailAutoSig"></a>Drake Chamberlin<br><i>Athens Electric LLC<br>OH License 44810<br>CO License 3773<br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV <br>740-448-7328<br></i><a href="http://athens-electric.com/" target="_blank">http://athens-electric.com/</a> <br><br><br>At 07:43 PM 8/23/2018, you wrote:<br><br></p><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0068_01D43B08.DFB2A130"<br>Content-Language: en-us<br><br>Drake,<br>All the conventional units I have amp clamped over the years are pushing 900-900+ watts per hour. I do not recommend them ever & to date I have never found a lower wattage blower. I would assume that a permanent magnet motor would fit this suggestion, but I have not found one.<br>For off grid I recommend: Radiant floor heat first and hot water base board second long before hot air. Air is a better insulator than a heat transfer agent.<br>The new ECM (electronically commutated motors) pump motors are basically at DC permanent magnet motor power draws [Taco & Grundfoss] these days.<br> <br>Best of luck with this one.<br> <br>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. <br><b>C - 208.721.7003 <a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank">dana@solarwork.com</a><br></b>Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374<br>NABCEP # 051112-136 <a href="http://www.solarwork.biz" target="_blank">www.solarwork.biz</a><br><u>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" <br></u><b>P</b> Please consider the environment before printing this email.<br> <br> <br><b>From:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Drake<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 23, 2018 2:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace<br> </p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Hello Wrenches,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>What is the best choice for a propane, forced air furnace for an off grid house? We would prefer one that doesn't have a phantom load, although the transformer for the thermostat may not be avoidable. Low blower current would be preferable. The furnace AC will be powered by a Magnum 4448 PAE.</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Thank you,</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'>Drake </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Drake Chamberlin</p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>Athens Electric LLC</p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>OH License 44810</p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>CO License 3773</p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>NABCEP Certified Solar PV </p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>740-448-7328</p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://athens-electric.com/" target="_blank">http://athens-electric.com/</a> </p><p class=MsoNormal> <br>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a> <br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a> <br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></p></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Change listserver email address & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out or update participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>