<div dir="auto"><div>And thank you Steve for reminding folks of all those nasty effects of outgassing hydrogen..I figured someone would, necessarily. <div dir="auto">These are sealed AGM, which I realize is not a guarantee of no hydrogen , but certainly not a constant hazzard. ALSO..</div><div dir="auto">.these are large spaces...full length of house crawl and frequently used garage. I tend to worry a bit more about my own bank of 4 250 AH ea. AGM, in a battery box of fiber cement board, under the inverter...no choice. </div><div dir="auto">In my case tho, it's in a 12' sq.basement , 6 steps down from the sunroom, and there is no door. So plenty of ventilation. ...</div><div dir="auto">What kinds of problems have wrenches had with AGM failure leading to significant outgassing? ?</div><div dir="auto">My Deka batteries are about 8 years old and are losing capacity, so looking to replace at some point....there have been a couple events over those years when they got a good workout, but not to the point of abuse. Generator when needed, 3.4 kw pv array, good sun.</div><div dir="auto">Thanks, ken</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jul 31, 2018, 1:57 PM Steve Higgins <<a href="mailto:steve@surrette.com">steve@surrette.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hello Wrenches... <div><br></div><div>Since Ken brought it up.... <br><br>Inverters are the most common of the ignition sources, with loose connections being a close second... Inside each inverter/charger is a transfer relay, this relay when it transfers to or from grid will spark. This sparking action can cause Hydrogen gas to ignite. <br><br>If there is over 1% by volume of hydrogen gas in the room, cubby or where ever this is installed the relay arching can cause the hydrogen to ignite. <div><br></div><div>This will flame out, much like lighting gunpowder, or gasoline fumes. The flame will follow the hydrogen back to the source (The battery) and once it gets inside the battery it will find compression, as the hydrogen ignites inside the battery that compression can/will cause the battery top to blow off... </div><div><br></div><div>Here are some examples of what it looks like when you have a hydrogen Ignition... </div><div><a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17H274ArR99FejHqCurn_9-hgJDSegPOv?usp=sharing" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17H274ArR99FejHqCurn_9-hgJDSegPOv?usp=sharing</a>.<br></div><div><br></div><div>The number one way to prevent this is to put enough air flow thru the room to remove the hydrogen gas before it can ignite. </div><div><br></div><div>Also Hydrogen gas is very corrosive... I still don't know why people install inverter/charge controller right above battery banks, I've seen charge controllers installed right above the battery bank that any non-conformal coated connection was corroded due to hydrogen gasses. </div><div><br></div><div>I've found that it's always best to enclose any battery bank in some box and at the highest point in the box put in a fan to remove the hydrogen from the box when the battery voltage gets above 2.25vpc/13.4v/26.8v/54v. </div><div><br></div><div>This is a pretty good article on calculating gassing from a battery bank. </div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://giantbatteryco.com/GLOSSARY/Calculate.Industrial.Battery.Hydrogen.Gas.Emission.html" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://giantbatteryco.com/GLOSSARY/Calculate.Industrial.Battery.Hydrogen.Gas.Emission.html</a><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="m_5694868012574544696gmail_signature"><div style="float:left;padding:1px 10px 0px 0px"><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/uXcqgyz.png" alt="" style="padding:3px 0px 0px 10px;float:left;margin-right:10px;width:98px;height:115px"></a><div style="font:bold 14px/20px Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><font color="#bb1a1d">Steve Higgins \u22c5
</font><span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-size:12px">Technical Services Manager</span>
</div>
<div style="font:bold 12px/20px Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><font color="#bb1a1d">
t</font><span style="color:rgb(184,39,106)">
<span style="font-weight:normal;color:rgb(64,64,64)">+1.902.597.4020</span> </span><font color="#bb1a1d">m</font>
<span style="color:rgb(64,64,64);font-weight:normal">+1.206.790.5840</span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-stretch:normal;font-size:12px;line-height:20px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><font style="font-weight:bold" color="#bb1a1d">f</font><font color="#cf1d0c" style="font-weight:bold"> </font>+1.902.597.8447 <font style="font-size:12px;font-weight:bold" color="#bb1a1d">e</font><span style="font-size:12px">
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<p style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Chris Schaefer\u2019s<br></font></span><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204);font-size:12.8px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png" width="200" height="40" style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"></a><br><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="font-size:9pt">Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 </span><span style="font-size:12px"><br></span></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt"><font color="#1f497d"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br></font></font></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a><span> </span>~ E-mail:<span> </span><span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p><p style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><img src="http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg" width="200" height="56"><br></span></i></p><p style="text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:black">Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."</span></p>
<br></span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 12:19 AM, frenergy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">frenergy@psln.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Jerry,</p>
<p> I serviced a system that (who became my) customer
installed just like that. To me, it doesn't really matter what the
NEC thinks about it. It was great because it showed me what I
would <b>never</b> duplicate in my repertoire of installs.</p>
<p>Bill<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="m_5694868012574544696m_1083934589469718641m_6716287820509096766m_4175795908426477908moz-cite-prefix">On 7/28/2018 5:10 PM, Jerry Caldwell
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Wrenches,<br>
<div><br>
<div>I have a customer who wants to have batteries installed
in a 4' tall crawl space / short basement. Are there any
accessibility code issues with installing batteries in a
crawl space? Does the NEC address this?<br>
<div><br>
<div>Thanks,<br>
Jerry Caldwell<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<pre class="m_5694868012574544696m_1083934589469718641m_6716287820509096766m_4175795908426477908moz-signature" cols="72">--
Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
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<a class="m_5694868012574544696m_1083934589469718641m_6716287820509096766m_4175795908426477908moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.frenergy.net" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">www.frenergy.net</a></pre>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_5694868012574544696m_1083934589469718641m_6716287820509096766gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="text-align:center"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><font face="Arial, sans-serif">Chris Schaefer\u2019s<br></font></span><a href="http:www.solarandwindfx.com" style="font-size:12.8px" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Solar-Wind-FX-Logo.png" width="200" height="40" style="color:rgb(31,73,125);font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"></a><br><i><span style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><span style="font-size:9pt">Tel/Fax
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South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424<br></font></font></span></i><i style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://www.solarandwindfx.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">www.solarandwindfx.com</span></a> ~ E-mail: <span style="color:blue"><a href="mailto:chris@solarandwindfx.com" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">chris@solarandwindfx.com</a></span></span></i></p><p style="text-align:center"><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><img src="http://solarandwindfx.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/certs.jpg" width="200" height="56"><br></span></i></p>
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