<div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Hey Wrenches! </span><br></div><div><div style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><span style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">That Camera it a FLIR-One. </span><div style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imager-Android/dp/B00W5PRY52/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1532009331&sr=8-5&keywords=flir+one+android" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ON<wbr>E-Thermal-Imager-Android/dp/B0<wbr>0W5PRY52/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qi<wbr>d=1532009331&sr=8-5&keywords=<wbr>flir+one+android</a></div><div style="font-size:12.8px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I bought mine a couple of years ago... at the time they were $350.00... now the older models are cheaper... There is a Flir One Pro now that has some newer features... </span><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">It plugs into my tablet and has an independent FLIR camera and overlays the flir image over the normal camera image. It has saved my bacon many times. Especially when it comes to checking connections, or individual battery issues. </span><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">While a battery that has been run partially dry isn't the best thing to do for the battery, it's also not the absolute end of the world. When it goes dry the plates are exposed to air, it's going to take a while for those plates oxidize, or corrode... once they've oxidized, or corroded you've lost that capacity from the battery. </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">Depending on how long they were dry also matters some manufactures envelope their plates, this also helps prevent from going totally dry... </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">As those age you will slowly notice say 12-36 months depending on how long they were dry you will still lose capacity so eventually you'll have to replace the cell or bank depending on of course how bad the damage is.. </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">Here are some pictures... I put them on Google Drive sorry my first email didn't go thru due to being too large. </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nYTRTQ8BJBJ6xlFnk0km9Gl7jQdCDtHY?usp=sharing">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1nYTRTQ8BJBJ6xlFnk0km9Gl7jQdCDtHY?usp=sharing</a></span><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">Here is what we see when you do run them dry</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">On the Pictures ending with 083113 and 083226... </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">This is a picture of what the plates look like when you've run them dry, you can see the water line. </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">The next picture (flir_20171115T045746) is a battery bank under charge you can see the second battery from the left is overall getting warmer than the rest of the batteries. If this was a shorted separator, or cell you'd see a hot spot in the battery, since the the heating is uniform throughout the battery, this battery getting hot due to an overall increased resistance in regards to the rest of the bank. This battery has developed a bit higher internal resistance (sulfation) and is more resistive to charge than the rest of the battery bank. You can also see some loose connections, it's fun to show that to the installer or customer after they tell you that "of course I tightened the connections"... When I commission a bank, or am involved in recovering a bank the first few charge cycles I'll watch these connections, and often you see these loosen up... Having the FLIR lets you see where your connections are not so good so you can clean them up. </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">The picture (2015-04-30 Mfangano Island 020 infrared) is an example of a short internally. </div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">As for parallel strings, yes my personal opinion is no more than two parallel strings, I don't see why guys do 3 strings 6v L16 for 24 and 48 volt banks... Once you go with 12- 6 volt batteries (3 Parallel Strings) why not use 12 2v batteries? Same for the 48 volt systems... Once you get to 24 6v L16's.. You could have gone with 24 2v batteries and had a much more efficient charging system. <br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style="font-size:12.8px">If I do ever get involved with banks with 2 or more strings, I will generally recommend bus bars over cables and main positive/negative buses with each parallel string (Over 2) fused with a class T fuse block and a shunt on each string if you need to monitor current in each string. As mentioned earlier, watching this current often aids in troubleshooting lead acid battery problems quickly. <span> </span><br></div></div></div>
<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div style="float:left;padding:1px 10px 0 0"><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="http://www.rollsbattery.com" target="_blank"><img src="https://i.imgur.com/uXcqgyz.png" alt="" style="padding:3px 0px 0px 10px;float:left;margin-right:10px;width:98px;height:115px"></a><div style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:bold;font-stretch:normal;font-size:14px;line-height:20px;font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;margin:0px"><font color="#bb1a1d">Steve Higgins \u22c5
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t</font><span style="color:rgb(184,39,106)">
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<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 9:40 AM, Ray <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I'm sure part of the problem is no load current circulation, but
much of the problem can be seen with a clamp on meter while
charging. I've seen parallel strings pulling 10 amps on one
string and 1 amp on the far end. Not subtle at all, and very easy
to understand why it would lead to unequal battery charging. Let
us know William what you find out with your extra shunts; we
always appreciate your keen mind and desire to get to the root of
the problem in a no nonsense manner. I think resistance checks of
the batteries and arranging the batteries into strings of equal
resistance might help too, but yes, less parallel strings is
better.<br>
</p><span class="">
<pre class="m_4399443848682757103moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
</span><div><div class="h5"><div class="m_4399443848682757103moz-cite-prefix">On 7/18/18 7:33 PM, William Miller
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
<div class="m_4399443848682757103WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Colleagues:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
believe that circulating currents in multi-string battery
installations are a major cause of premature failure of such
a system. I think it is important to monitor these
currents. Most telling would be checking these currents in
an at-rest scenario. It would be helpful to have a baseline
at install and then check periodically. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Measuring
these currents with any type of DC clamp-on meter can be
inaccurate at best. In a conversation with Steve Higgins at
a recent trade show I came up with this idea that may have
some merit: If an install has more than one string of
batteries, install an appropriately sized shunt in the
negative lead of each string. At any later date you can
apply any decent voltmeter with a millivolt scale and check
for battery string imbalance with some degree of accuracy.
Shunts are cheap and readily available and if you avoid the
brand that Outback uses in the Radian GSLC cabinets, they
are relatively rugged.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">We
will be trying this in any future install with multiple
strings, although we avoid this if at all possible.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">William
Miller</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"><img id="m_4399443848682757103Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:part1.DA8304E8.2256206C@solarray.com" alt="Gradient Cap_mini" width="80" height="35"><br>
Lic 773985<br>
<a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:blue">millersolar.com</span></a><br>
805-438-5600</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@<wbr>lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Blittersdorf<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, July 18, 2018 6:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Electrolyte Dilution vs
Voltage</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Mac,</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I was about to ditto Ray with his
more common than I would like scenario of battery death
when I saw your mention of the 2nd string not connected.
It is always nice to see</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">a solution that is simple and should
have been considered, but wasn't. The assumption with
battery issues usually is that they are actually hooked
up! I often thought that it would be worth the money to
supply a cheap AC/DC clamp meter with every installation
so that a phone consultation could quickly determine if
the strings were unbalanced and what might be the reason.
Bad cells and bad connection will usually show up in a
current check and then a quick voltage check of each
battery with a load on the system will show the culprit if
a bad cell and corrosion present might find the bad
connection. I use Interstate L16's most of the time and
find that the life is typically 6 years. I used to call
them a 7 to 10 year battery but kept racheting back the
claim until I now call them a 5 to 7 year battery with
more if properly maintained. I have seen 10 years but it
is rare. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">John Blittersdorf</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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