<div dir="ltr">I agree with you, Ray, as a purely off-grid solar installer and troubleshooter. I think all that was accomplished in NEC 2017 on this issue is that non-habitable structures, like the common off-grid 'power shed' don't need 690.12 RS anymore. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Dan Fink</span><div style="font-size:12.8px">Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">IREC Certified Instructor\u2122 for: </div><div style="font-size:12.8px">~ PV Installation Professional</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">~ Small Wind Installer</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">Executive Director, Buckville Energy</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers\u2122</div><div style="font-size:12.8px">NABCEP Associate</div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br><a value="+19706724342" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)">970.672.4342</a></div><br> </div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM, Ray <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Midnite has some string level and module level 690.12 disconnects
that wire in like an optimizer or micro inverter, so those should
be able to meet the 2019 requirements. However beware: they as
of yet still don't have a reasonable disconnect system to
disconnect the charge controller which has capacitors that back
feed the PV line for up to 90 seconds. They have a DC GFI breaker
with remote trip capability but it takes 4 spaces, so with
multiple charge controllers it turns into a wiring mess really
fast. <br>
</p>
<p>I actually wired in some 60 amp rated diodes on one system to get
it to pass inspection; what a joke, going back to 1980s equipment
to pass 2017 code. 690.12 is an absolute nightmare for small
off grid. There really should be some exemptions for small arrays
(under 3 kW) and under 100 vdc. Fire fighters are not going to
get there till the structure is down anyway, Response times are
up to an hour for remote locations with volunteer fire
departments. Its not like in town at all; no one is going to go
on the roof on an off grid fire.</p>
<p>On the flip side, there are real dangers created by nuisance
tripping of 690.12 equipment. Again, on grid it's a mere
inconvenience, but off grid it could mean spoiled food, frozen
water lines, shut down heating systems in subzero temperatures,
and for the elderly: loss of their breathing machines. I've
already had a 74 year old customer climbing on their roof multiple
times to reset the Rapid shutdown equipment after nuisance trips.
Are we going to wait until we get someone killed in the name of
"Safety" before we fix this? <br>
</p>
<pre class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre><div><div class="h5">
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-cite-prefix">On 7/6/18 9:55 AM, cwarfel wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
<p><font face="Verdana">I <font face="Verdana">am wondering about
the <font face="Verdana">experience installers have with a
DC coupled multimode <font face="Verdana">system design
that w<font face="Verdana">ill comply </font></font></font></font></font><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana">after <font face="Verdana">January
1 </font></font></font></font></font></font></font>with
what <font face="Verdana">I feel is t<font face="Verdana">he biggest mistake/poorly guided
part of NEC 201<font face="Verdana">7 </font>690,
and t<font face="Verdana">hat is </font></font></font>690.<font face="Verdana">12<font face="Verdana">. <font face="Verdana">We are install<font face="Verdana">ing two Ou<font face="Verdana">tback
<font face="Verdana">s<font face="Verdana">ystems
with the rem<font face="Verdana">ote c<font face="Verdana">ontrolle<font face="Verdana">d combiner and even
that w<font face="Verdana">on't
comply after January 1 unless we
<font face="Verdana">parallel
more subarrays (There's safety
for you, <font face="Verdana">lower
voltage<font face="Verdana">-hi<font face="Verdana">gher ampe<font face="Verdana">rage!).
Thanks for any
insight. <br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana">Chris</font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><br>
</p>
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">-- <br>
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature"><br>
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature">
<font size="-1"> Christopher Warfel, PE<br>
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<br>
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<br>
(401)466-8978</font><br>
<div class="m_3426889623694695176moz-signature"> <br>
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