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<p><font face="Verdana">The issue I first raised w<font
face="Verdana">as <font face="Verdana">within the array bou<font
face="Verdana">ndary<font face="Verdana">. It <font
face="Verdana">wa<font face="Verdana">s </font></font>very
help<font face="Verdana">ful that it was clarified that
battery <font face="Verdana">conductors are not PV c<font
face="Verdana">ircuits. This still leaves the
problem of dc coupled multimode inverters on a
roof hav<font face="Verdana">ing to limit the
voltage to 80 or less. It really needs to be <font
face="Verdana">changed to<font face="Verdana">
at least 15<font face="Verdana">0<font
face="Verdana">vdc. A <font
face="Verdana">tremendous national
resource in <font face="Verdana">dc
couple potential <font
face="Verdana">has been written o<font
face="Verdana">ut of existence.
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 7/6/2018 4:57 PM, Rebekah Hren
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CA+iiD9BS1DUPpZAa+UgxuOJFv=rC63m9_zfqcdYG5KRO8=pEeA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<div dir="ltr">I believe there was a big improvement for off-grid
systems as relates to RS in the 2017 NEC - the diagrams in
690.1(b) all show the PV system disconnect clearly now. If you
check out the diagrams you can see that energy storage/battery
circuits, including the battery-based inverter whether AC or DC
coupled, are outside the PV system boundary, thus not PV system
circuits, thus not subject to RS.
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, th<a
href="https://downloads.nfpa.org/codes-and-standards/all-codes-and-standards/list-of-codes-and-standards/detail?code=70&tab=nextedition"
moz-do-not-send="true">e NEC 2020 1st draft report has
been published</a>, so get your comments submitted! </div>
<div><br>
<div>Rebekah Hren</div>
<div>Member, NEC CMP-4</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 2:22 PM Dan Fink <<a
href="mailto:danbob88@gmail.com" moz-do-not-send="true">danbob88@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I agree with you, Ray, as a purely off-grid
solar installer and troubleshooter. I think all that was
accomplished in NEC 2017 on this issue is that non-habitable
structures, like the common off-grid 'power shed' don't need
690.12 RS anymore. </div>
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<div><span
style="font-size:12.8px">Dan
Fink</span>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">Professor
of Solar Energy Technology,
Ecotech Institute</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">IREC
Certified Instructor\u2122 for: </div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">~
PV Installation Professional</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">~
Small Wind Installer</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">Executive
Director, Buckville Energy</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">NABCEP
Registered Continuing
Education Providers\u2122</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">NABCEP
Associate</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
<a value="+19706724342"
style="color:rgb(17,85,204)"
moz-do-not-send="true">970.672.4342</a></div>
<br>
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<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 6, 2018 at 11:32 AM,
Ray <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">ray@solarray.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Midnite has some string level and module level
690.12 disconnects that wire in like an optimizer or
micro inverter, so those should be able to meet the
2019 requirements. However beware: they as of yet
still don't have a reasonable disconnect system to
disconnect the charge controller which has
capacitors that back feed the PV line for up to 90
seconds. They have a DC GFI breaker with remote
trip capability but it takes 4 spaces, so with
multiple charge controllers it turns into a wiring
mess really fast. <br>
</p>
<p>I actually wired in some 60 amp rated diodes on one
system to get it to pass inspection; what a joke,
going back to 1980s equipment to pass 2017 code.
690.12 is an absolute nightmare for small off grid.
There really should be some exemptions for small
arrays (under 3 kW) and under 100 vdc. Fire
fighters are not going to get there till the
structure is down anyway, Response times are up to
an hour for remote locations with volunteer fire
departments. Its not like in town at all; no one
is going to go on the roof on an off grid fire.</p>
<p>On the flip side, there are real dangers created by
nuisance tripping of 690.12 equipment. Again, on
grid it's a mere inconvenience, but off grid it
could mean spoiled food, frozen water lines, shut
down heating systems in subzero temperatures, and
for the elderly: loss of their breathing machines.
I've already had a 74 year old customer climbing on
their roof multiple times to reset the Rapid
shutdown equipment after nuisance trips. Are we
going to wait until we get someone killed in the
name of "Safety" before we fix this? <br>
</p>
<pre class="m_4882979399566407304m_3426889623694695176moz-signature" cols="72">Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760</pre>
<div>
<div class="m_4882979399566407304h5">
<div
class="m_4882979399566407304m_3426889623694695176moz-cite-prefix">On
7/6/18 9:55 AM, cwarfel wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_4882979399566407304h5">
<p><font face="Verdana">I <font face="Verdana">am
wondering about the <font face="Verdana">experience
installers have with a DC coupled
multimode <font face="Verdana">system
design that w<font face="Verdana">ill
comply </font></font></font></font></font><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana">after <font
face="Verdana">January
1 </font></font></font></font></font></font></font>with
what <font face="Verdana">I feel is
t<font face="Verdana">he biggest
mistake/poorly guided part of
NEC 201<font face="Verdana">7 </font>690,
and t<font face="Verdana">hat is
</font></font></font>690.<font
face="Verdana">12<font
face="Verdana">. <font
face="Verdana">We are install<font
face="Verdana">ing two Ou<font
face="Verdana">tback <font
face="Verdana">s<font
face="Verdana">ystems
with the rem<font
face="Verdana">ote c<font
face="Verdana">ontrolle<font
face="Verdana">d
combiner and
even that w<font
face="Verdana">on't
comply after
January 1
unless we <font
face="Verdana">parallel
more subarrays
(There's
safety for
you, <font
face="Verdana">lower
voltage<font
face="Verdana">-hi<font
face="Verdana">gher
ampe<font
face="Verdana">rage!).
Thanks for any
insight. <br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana">Chris</font><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
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face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
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face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><font
face="Verdana"><br>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></p>
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