<div dir="ltr">Hi everyone,<div><br><div>I strongly recommend looking at the figures that were added in NEC 2017 at the beginning of Article 690 in 690.1(b). </div><div><br></div><div>What they show is equipment that is part of the PV system (to the left of the PV system disconnect called out in the diagrams), and equipment that is not part of the PV system (to the right of the PV system disconnect). These are really helpful diagrams, in terms of figuring out where the requirements of Article 690 apply.</div><div><br></div><div>Equipment <b>not</b> part of the PV system is not a "PV system circuit" and thus is <b>not</b> subject to rapid shutdown requirements per 690.12.</div><div><br></div><div>In every type of system you will see that energy storage is <b>not </b>part of the PV system, and neither is the multimode inverter for a system with energy storage. So rapid shutdown requirements shouldn't affect any of the loads, multimode inverter, or batteries in an off-grid system. </div><div><br></div><div>In the 2017 NEC, the PV system disconnect, as shown on the diagrams, is required to be readily accessible per 690.13(A). For a system without batteries, the PV system disconnect is <b>always </b>an AC disconnect, not a DC disconnect. <span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">It can be the backfed breaker per 690.13(F)(1). </span>For a system with batteries the PV system disconnect is always before the batteries. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Equipment disconnects, like the DC inverter disconnect, are not required to be readily accessible, but must be within 10 feet of the equipment, per 690.15(A). </div><div><br></div><div>Also note that the boundary for rapid shutdown shrank to <b>one foot</b> from the perimeter of the array in the 2017 NEC, so the inverter must be positioned within one foot of the array if there is not going to be any other RS equipment. The PV system disconnect (backfed breaker) or the service disconnect can serve as the rapid shutdown initiation device in that case. </div><div><br></div><div>Best, </div><div>Rebekah Hren, Member of NEC CMP-4 for Solar Energy International</div><div><br></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">--<span> </span></span><br style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div class="m_-3297463944066289755gmail_signature" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div dir="ltr">Tel: 336.266.8800<br>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional\u2122 091209-85<br>NC Licensed Electrical Contractor</div></div><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 9:00 PM, Ray <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>For GT using Solar edge or Enphase, its not so hard to comply,
but If you are looking at off grid systems, it's not just
someone's opinion, its $1,000s of dollars extra to comply with
690.12. It also results in a system that is less reliable, which
is less safe off grid where lives depend on that power for heat,
light, refrigeration, and even breathing machines.</p>
<p>Ray Walters</p>
<p>Remote Solar<br>
</p><div><div class="m_-3297463944066289755h5">
<br>
<div class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921moz-cite-prefix">On 4/16/18 7:44 AM, Brian Mehalic
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hey y'all, I'm going to disagree about the NEC
getting "worse and worse when it comes to PV," (see disconnect
and grounding requirements, for instance!), but as with previous
posters, that's just an opinion.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding location - the 2014 version had very little to
say about the location of any rapid shutdown initiation
device; 2017 adds the requirement [690.12(C)] that RS
initiation devices for one- and two-family dwellings be
readily accessible (defined in Article 100), AND outside the
building. Seems reasonable for a device that is intended to
control energized conductors to make it more safe to enter a
building. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers,</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Brian Mehalic <br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation
Professional\u2122 R031508-59</div>
<div>520.204.6639<br>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>Solar Energy International<br>
<a href="http://www.solarenergy.org" target="_blank">http://www.solarenergy.org</a></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>SEI Professional Services</div>
<div><a href="http://www.seisolarpros.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:12.8px">http://www.s</span>eisolarpros.com</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 16, 2018 at 12:04 AM, Mark
Frye <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com" target="_blank">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Thanks Darryl.</p>
<p>I guess I can add that I am in CA and so looked only at
the 2014. I also looked at the 2017 article. Man, I have
to say, my impression remains that really starting with
2008 the code has just gotten worse and worse when it
comes to PV, but that is just me.</p>
<p>Not really sure what might need to be "Outside readily
accessible". Is there something other than 690.12 that I
need to look at?</p>
<span class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<p>Mark</p>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921h5">
<div class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499moz-cite-prefix">On
4/15/2018 8:26 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I think the code says Outside readily
accessible, </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at
12:22 PM, Mark Frye <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:markf@berkeleysolar.com" target="_blank">markf@berkeleysolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Folks,<br>
<br>
As I recall, an inverter and it's integrated
DC disconnect need only be placed in an
accessible location. I am thinking of putting
an inverter high up on the wall inside a
garage. That would be OK vis-a-vis the
location of the disconnect (still accessible
for maintenance).<br>
<br>
If I do put the inverter high up on the wall,
I can limit my DC conductors to less that 10
feet total from the array and less that 5 feet
inside the garage.<br>
<br>
That means I get the exemption from the rapid
disconnect requirement, right?<br>
<br>
There is nothing in the Code linking the
accessibility of the DC disconnect to the
exemption from rapid shutdown, right?<br>
<br>
Mark Frye<br>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address &
settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/o<wbr>ptions.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren<wbr>ches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re<wbr>-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or<wbr>g/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.<wbr>htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/o<wbr>ptions.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren<wbr>ches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re<wbr>-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or<wbr>g/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.<wbr>htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921m_-2330833750878756499moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/o<wbr>ptions.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren<wbr>ches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re<wbr>-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or<wbr>g/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.<wbr>htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre>______________________________<wbr>_________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: <a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a>
Change listserver email address & settings:
<a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/o<wbr>ptions.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren<wbr>ches.org</a>
List-Archive: <a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re<wbr>-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or<wbr>g/maillist.html</a>
List rules & etiquette:
<a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.<wbr>htm</a>
Check out or update participant bios:
<a class="m_-3297463944066289755m_4267307128012263921moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.<wbr>org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/o<wbr>ptions.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wren<wbr>ches.org</a><br>
<br>
List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.mail-archive.com/re<wbr>-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.or<wbr>g/maillist.html</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.<wbr>htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div><br>
</div></div></div>