<html><body>Ray, Chris, et al,<br><br>Both Paloma (185,500 BTU/h) and Bosch (117,000 BTU/h) manufactured natural draft heaters that used zero electric, just like common tanks. Because the majority of these units used a standing pilot, they were castigated by the energy bureaucrat folks in favor of something that used some electronics to create a spark. Complexity. Then to get the unit bigger (max ~200,000 BTU/h) for non-boiler applications, a power vent was added (more complexity) and in due time an electrically driven gas valve (yet more complexity). To help keep the heater from freezing when the installation was not done properly, electric ceramic heaters were added to the heat exchanger to minimize freezing (~300 w temperature activation). <br><br>The way these non electric natural draft tankless heaters were used in Europe and Asia was to turn off even the pilot once you were finished using the water heater (they had the piezo (BBQ style) sparker that was integrated with the unit as factory equipment). Energy efficient and simple. There are rare non electric units still available (sometimes at a premium) if you look hard in the US. Alternatively, look no further than Canada and Mexico for the same non electric Bosch models outlawed in the US. The Paloma has been out of production for some time, so when my remaining new natural gas units are gone, I will not be able to get any more either. <br><br>Best wishes,<br>Bill Loesch<br>314 631 1094<br><br><div class="reply-new-signature"></div><p>-----------------------------------------</p>From: "Ray" <ray@solarray.com><br>To: <br>Cc: <br>Sent: 20-Mar-2018 21:15:19 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person<br><br>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>Rianai have 3 major issues when used off grid. <br>
</p>
<p>1) The phantom load when I checked was over 30 watts continuous. That's over 700 w-hr/ day. <br>
</p>
<p>2) They need pure sine wave, and even have trouble on Trace SW inverters. (One system I took over has a separate Exeltech on its own battery and AC charger to run the Rianai, since they have Trace inverters. Talk about a waste!)<br>
</p>
<p>3) They still have the hard well water scaling issues.</p>
<p>Ray <br>
</p>
<p>Remote Solar<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
On 3/20/18 12:03 PM, Dana wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="denied:mid:003f01d3c075$c7cd8d40$5768a7c0$@solarwork.com">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">It used to be that \u201ctankless\u201d water heaters were very sensitive to stable temperature production as flows from single handle facets shut down the hot and opened the cold flows.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">I can fully recommend the Rianai heaters of today as we have 2 in offgrid and 0 issues. I have family members that have had them in residential homes for several years also and 0 issues.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">They do require 120 vac & have digital controls. The water temperature is very stable & consistent. I have not measured the phantom load but could if someone needs to know.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">2 thumbs up for Rianai heaters from MHO.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"> </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#002060">----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">C - 208.721.7003 <a target="_blank" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com">dana@solarwork.com</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">NABCEP # 051112-136 <a target="_blank" href="http://www.solarwork.biz"><span style="color:blue">www.solarwork.biz</span></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span></span><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif"></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green">P</span></b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:green">Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="color:windowtext"> RE-wrenches <a target="_blank" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>cwarfel<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a target="_blank" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">What are the issues with tankless water heaters? I have heard them described as having "issues", but I haven't read anything that describes what they are. They are very popular where I live. Any info? Thanks, Chris</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in">On 3/20/2018 1:07 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:</p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">And a big maybe for Offgrid where we like multiple ways to</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">charge/heat/cool and make hot water. The default method is almost always</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">the most reliable. For a typical home a 50 gallon propane tank water</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">heater with a zinc change every 7 years is the norm.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">An air to water heat pump, an open loop solar water panel or closed loop</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">if conditions warrant it are great secondary methods. To me heating water</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">with electricity does not work because of winter and is a last thing to</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">add.A tankless and their issues are near the end of the list. Ground</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">source heat pumps are even lower to me with very nice prices on extremely</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">efficient mini split air source pumps.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">I always try and minimize generators but if you need them then it allows</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">one to have more options.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">"we go where powerlines don't"</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><a target="_blank" href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/"></a><a target="_blank" href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">e-mail <a target="_blank" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">text 209 813 0060</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Maybe. I designed my own house to incorporate this. The most efficient are</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">the vertical type, and at 6' the company advertised 20% recovery for about</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">$1,300 if I remember correctly. This I'm sure is for a new copper pipe,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">and</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">anyone who's ever taken apart a sewer pipe after a few years will know all</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">pipes get a bacterial mat of a couple mm thick. I suspect this might be a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">pretty good insulator. At any rate there is a whole lot of copper involved</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">and associated inherent environmental challenges. I can't help but think</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">for the house design challenge to accommodate such a long perfectly</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">vertical pipe and expense another kW or more of solar would offset more</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">energy.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Drake</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><<a target="_blank" href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a></pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">wrote:</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Daniel,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">That sounds like an intriguing technology, much along the lines of an</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">air</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">to air heat exchanger. Thanks for the recommendation. These systems</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">could</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">keep a lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere if widely used.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Drake</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">At 10:09 AM 3/19/2018, you wrote:</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Content-Type: multipart/alternative;</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0077_01D3BF6A.5EF88420"</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Content-Language: en-us</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Drake,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Have you or the client looked into the drainwater heat recovery units?</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">They make both a vertical and horizontal mounted version. They just help</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">recover the waste heat from shower water going down the drain.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">My understanding is that economically they are barely past the breakeven</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">point when considering offsetting grid power. If using PV costs as the</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">benchmark, the economics would be better. If somehow this is off grid,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">then</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Iâ\u20ac\u2122d say itâ\u20ac\u2122s a home run. (Hopefully though this is not an</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">all-electric</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">off-grid building.)</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">The main benefit, as far as I understand it, is that you can get by with</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">smaller unit, with a smaller heating element to perform the same task,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">OR</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">you can get much longer showers from the same sized unit. Depending on</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">the</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">clients goals, this might be a useful tool to bring into the situation.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Here are two brand names that I know of.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Vertical mount: renewability</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Horizontal mount: ecodrain</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">I have not used these products, so I cannot endorse any of them, just</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">though it may be worth consideration.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">With Regards,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Daniel Young,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">*From:* RE-wrenches <a target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> *On</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Behalf Of *Drake</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">*Sent:* Thursday, March 15, 2018 1:00 PM</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">*To:* RE-wrenches <a target="_blank" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">This discussion has been a great help. The house is built and the</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">plumbing</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">is in, but could be modified. Wood stoves are not a likely solution. I</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">think we need a different water heating strategy.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Thank you all!</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Drake</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">At 09:21 AM 3/15/2018, you wrote:</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Content-Type: multipart/alternative;</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> boundary="------------EE4E9806B711DEF636076840"</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Content-Language: en-US</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">This is what I came up with:</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">The calculation is Q = mcp delta T</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Water Temp out =Ã\u201a 120</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Water Temp in = ground source Temperature @ 50F?</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">delta T = 70F</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">m =Ã\u201a mass flow rate.Ã\u201a ASHRAE is the source for this. 20gals per</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">person</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">per day = 20 gallons x 8.34 lbs/gallon =Ã\u201a 167lbs/day/person</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">cp =Ã\u201a 1 BTU/lb-degree F</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Q = 167 x 1 x 70 = 11,676 BTU/day/person</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Divide this by the efficiency of the water heating system (I'll assume =</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">.86)Ã\u201a =11,676/.86 = 13, 577 BTU/person/day</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">convert to kWh if necessarym 13,577/3412 = ~4 kWh/person/day, 120</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">kWh/month</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">I checked this against one month and it seems reasonable.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Website assuming ~3.5 family size comes up with @ 400kWh per month. They</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">approached it another way with assuming run times.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><a target="_blank" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=hp&ei="></a><a target="_blank" href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=hp&ei=">https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=hp&ei=</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Z3KqWvXiNsGb5wKJ2Kf4DA&q=electric+water+heater+use+annual+consumption&oq=</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">electric+water+heater+use+annually&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">33i22i29i30k1l3.279.9222.0.12475.35.19.0.7.7.0.451.2360.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">0j6j4j0j1.11.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..18.16.1952.0..</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">0j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i22i30k1.0.CiU8wYZigpI</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Chris</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">On 3/15/2018 8:09 AM, Mike Kocsmiersky wrote:</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Barton makes a good point with regards to the incoming ground water</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">temperature and the amount of heat required to bring it up to shower</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">temp.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a My recollection is that ASHRAE states 20gal/person/day for the first</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">2</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">people, then 15gpd or 12gpd thereafter.Ã\u201a However those rates vary</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">wildly</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">with consumers, from those that never bathe to the high schooler that</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">needs</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">3 showers a day.Ã\u201a In the northeast water heating can be up to 19% of</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">the</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">total household energy load for the year.Ã\u201a Also, I would recommend the</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">air</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">source heat pump water heaters if you have significant humidity or an on</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">demand unit.Ã\u201a Water tanks are typically under insulated and can lose</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">2kWh/day in standby losses.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Mike Kocsmiersky</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Principal</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Spirit Solar Inc.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">(413) 734-1456</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">From: Barton Churchill [<a target="_blank" href="mailto:barton@solarips.com">mailto:barton@solarips.com</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><a target="_blank" href="mailto:barton@solarips.com"><barton@solarips.com></a>]</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:31 PM</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">To: RE-wrenches</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">You first need to know your ground temperature. Then figure a delta to</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">100</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">or so degrees. Most but not all showerheads flow 2.5gpm and showers are</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">typically 10 minutes. You can then find a calculator online to calculate</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">how many Btus are required to raise water temp for your delta per</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">gallon.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Convert to kWh, add some contingency and you should be good.Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">On Wednesday, March 14, 2018, < <a target="_blank" href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">wrote:</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Hello Wrenches,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Is there a good way to estimate the power that will be consumed for</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">electric water per person per day? We are estimating the amount of power</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">that will be used by an all electric duplex, and the water heater amount</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">seems high. The current model we have claims 3493 kWh/ year per 26</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">gallon</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">tank will be consumed. With the two units, that would add up to 6986 kWh</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">/</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">year for hot water, pushing the system size to humongous for a 1300 ft</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">sq</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">building.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Does that seem high? There will be a maximum of 2 people per unit.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">The owner is considering going to 115 V units with a 15 gallon tanks. I</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">think the smaller tank would help, but it would seem that the amount of</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">hot</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">water consumed would be the main issue.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">How can we get a good estimate for a per person energy usage for</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">electric</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">hot water? Any other suggestions are welcome.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Thank you,</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Drake</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">--</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">--Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Barton Churchill</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">406.587.5295 <(406)%20587-5295> Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">2430 North 7th Bozeman, MT 59715</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><a target="_blank" href="http://www.solarips.com">www.solarips.com</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">[image: Image removed by sender.]</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in">_______________________________________________</pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in">--</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Christopher Warfel, PE</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a ENTECH Engineering, Inc.</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a (401)466-8978</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in"><(401)%20466-8978></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Ã\u201a</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">[image: EEI logo] <a target="_blank" href="http://entech-engineering.com"><</a><a target="_blank" href="http://entech-engineering.com">http://entech-engineering.com</a>></pre>
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</blockquote>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in"> </pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">--</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">--</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Barton Churchill</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">406.587.5295</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">2430 North 7th Bozeman, MT 59715</pre>
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</blockquote>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in">Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar</pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">"we go where powerlines don't"</pre>
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<pre style="margin-left:.5in">e-mail <a target="_blank" href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a></pre>
<pre style="margin-left:.5in">text 209 813 0060</pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Christopher Warfel, PE<br>
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<br>
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<br>
(401)466-8978</span></p>
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