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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>It used to be that \u201ctankless\u201d water heaters were very sensitive to stable temperature production as flows from single handle facets shut down the hot and opened the cold flows.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>I can fully recommend the Rianai heaters of today as we have 2 in offgrid and 0 issues. I have family members that have had them in residential homes for several years also and 0 issues.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>They do require 120 vac & have digital controls. The water temperature is very stable & consistent. I have not measured the phantom load but could if someone needs to know.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>2 thumbs up for Rianai heaters from MHO.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif;color:#002060'>----------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc.</span><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>C - 208.721.7003 dana@solarwork.com<o:p></o:p></span></b></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>NABCEP # 051112-136 <a href="http://www.solarwork.biz"><span style='color:blue'>www.solarwork.biz</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><u><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" </span></u><u><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></u></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span></b><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:green'>Please consider the environment before printing this email.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Century Gothic",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><b><span style='color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='color:windowtext'> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org> <b>On Behalf Of </b>cwarfel<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 20, 2018 11:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><p style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>What are the issues with tankless water heaters? I have heard them described as having "issues", but I haven't read anything that describes what they are. They are very popular where I live. Any info? Thanks, Chris</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>On 3/20/2018 1:07 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>And a big maybe for Offgrid where we like multiple ways to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>charge/heat/cool and make hot water. The default method is almost always<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>the most reliable. For a typical home a 50 gallon propane tank water<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>heater with a zinc change every 7 years is the norm.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>An air to water heat pump, an open loop solar water panel or closed loop<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>if conditions warrant it are great secondary methods. To me heating water<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>with electricity does not work because of winter and is a last thing to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>add.A tankless and their issues are near the end of the list. Ground<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>source heat pumps are even lower to me with very nice prices on extremely<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>efficient mini split air source pumps.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>I always try and minimize generators but if you need them then it allows<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>one to have more options.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>text 209 813 0060<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Maybe. I designed my own house to incorporate this. The most efficient are<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>the vertical type, and at 6' the company advertised 20% recovery for about<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>$1,300 if I remember correctly. This I'm sure is for a new copper pipe,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>and<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>anyone who's ever taken apart a sewer pipe after a few years will know all<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>pipes get a bacterial mat of a couple mm thick. I suspect this might be a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>pretty good insulator. At any rate there is a whole lot of copper involved<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>and associated inherent environmental challenges. I can't help but think<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>for the house design challenge to accommodate such a long perfectly<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>vertical pipe and expense another kW or more of solar would offset more<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>energy.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Drake<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><<a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Daniel,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>That sounds like an intriguing technology, much along the lines of an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>air<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>to air heat exchanger. Thanks for the recommendation. These systems<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>could<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>keep a lot of CO2 out of the atmosphere if widely used.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Drake<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>At 10:09 AM 3/19/2018, you wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0077_01D3BF6A.5EF88420"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Content-Language: en-us<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Drake,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Have you or the client looked into the drainwater heat recovery units?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>They make both a vertical and horizontal mounted version. They just help<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>recover the waste heat from shower water going down the drain.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>My understanding is that economically they are barely past the breakeven<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>point when considering offsetting grid power. If using PV costs as the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>benchmark, the economics would be better. If somehow this is off grid,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>then<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Iâ\u20ac\u2122d say itâ\u20ac\u2122s a home run. (Hopefully though this is not an<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>all-electric<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>off-grid building.)<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>The main benefit, as far as I understand it, is that you can get by with<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>smaller unit, with a smaller heating element to perform the same task,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>OR<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>you can get much longer showers from the same sized unit. Depending on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>clients goals, this might be a useful tool to bring into the situation.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Here are two brand names that I know of.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Vertical mount: renewability<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Horizontal mount: ecodrain<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>I have not used these products, so I cannot endorse any of them, just<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>though it may be worth consideration.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>With Regards,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Daniel Young,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>*From:* RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> *On<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Behalf Of *Drake<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>*Sent:* Thursday, March 15, 2018 1:00 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>*To:* RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>This discussion has been a great help. The house is built and the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>plumbing<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>is in, but could be modified. Wood stoves are not a likely solution. I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>think we need a different water heating strategy.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Thank you all!<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Drake<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>At 09:21 AM 3/15/2018, you wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'> boundary="------------EE4E9806B711DEF636076840"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Content-Language: en-US<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>This is what I came up with:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>The calculation is Q = mcp delta T<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Water Temp out =Ã\u201a 120<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Water Temp in = ground source Temperature @ 50F?<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>delta T = 70F<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>m =Ã\u201a mass flow rate.Ã\u201a ASHRAE is the source for this. 20gals per<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>person<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>per day = 20 gallons x 8.34 lbs/gallon =Ã\u201a 167lbs/day/person<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>cp =Ã\u201a 1 BTU/lb-degree F<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Q = 167 x 1 x 70 = 11,676 BTU/day/person<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Divide this by the efficiency of the water heating system (I'll assume =<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>.86)Ã\u201a =11,676/.86 = 13, 577 BTU/person/day<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>convert to kWh if necessarym 13,577/3412 = ~4 kWh/person/day, 120<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>kWh/month<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>I checked this against one month and it seems reasonable.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Website assuming ~3.5 family size comes up with @ 400kWh per month. They<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>approached it another way with assuming run times.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=hp&ei=">https://www.google.com/search?safe=active&source=hp&ei=</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Z3KqWvXiNsGb5wKJ2Kf4DA&q=electric+water+heater+use+annual+consumption&oq=<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>electric+water+heater+use+annually&gs_l=psy-ab.1.2.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>33i22i29i30k1l3.279.9222.0.12475.35.19.0.7.7.0.451.2360.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>0j6j4j0j1.11.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..18.16.1952.0..<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>0j0i67k1j0i131k1j0i22i30k1.0.CiU8wYZigpI<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Chris<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>On 3/15/2018 8:09 AM, Mike Kocsmiersky wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Barton makes a good point with regards to the incoming ground water<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>temperature and the amount of heat required to bring it up to shower<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>temp.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a My recollection is that ASHRAE states 20gal/person/day for the first<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>2<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>people, then 15gpd or 12gpd thereafter.Ã\u201a However those rates vary<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>wildly<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>with consumers, from those that never bathe to the high schooler that<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>needs<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>3 showers a day.Ã\u201a In the northeast water heating can be up to 19% of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>total household energy load for the year.Ã\u201a Also, I would recommend the<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>air<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>source heat pump water heaters if you have significant humidity or an on<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>demand unit.Ã\u201a Water tanks are typically under insulated and can lose<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>2kWh/day in standby losses.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Mike Kocsmiersky<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Principal<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Spirit Solar Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>(413) 734-1456<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>From: Barton Churchill [<a href="mailto:barton@solarips.com">mailto:barton@solarips.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="mailto:barton@solarips.com"><barton@solarips.com></a>]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 7:31 PM<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>To: RE-wrenches<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Electric Water kWh/ person<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>You first need to know your ground temperature. Then figure a delta to<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>100<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>or so degrees. Most but not all showerheads flow 2.5gpm and showers are<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>typically 10 minutes. You can then find a calculator online to calculate<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>how many Btus are required to raise water temp for your delta per<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>gallon.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Convert to kWh, add some contingency and you should be good.Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>On Wednesday, March 14, 2018, < <a href="mailto:drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org">drake.chamberlin@redwoodalliance.org</a>><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>wrote:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Hello Wrenches,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Is there a good way to estimate the power that will be consumed for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>electric water per person per day? We are estimating the amount of power<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>that will be used by an all electric duplex, and the water heater amount<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>seems high. The current model we have claims 3493 kWh/ year per 26<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>gallon<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>tank will be consumed. With the two units, that would add up to 6986 kWh<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>/<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>year for hot water, pushing the system size to humongous for a 1300 ft<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>sq<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>building.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Does that seem high? There will be a maximum of 2 people per unit.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>The owner is considering going to 115 V units with a 15 gallon tanks. I<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>think the smaller tank would help, but it would seem that the amount of<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>hot<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>water consumed would be the main issue.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>How can we get a good estimate for a per person energy usage for<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>electric<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>hot water? Any other suggestions are welcome.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Drake<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>--Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Barton Churchill<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>406.587.5295 <(406)%20587-5295> Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>2430 North 7th Bozeman, MT 59715<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.solarips.com">www.solarips.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>[image: Image removed by sender.]<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Address:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address &<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules &<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Christopher Warfel, PE<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a Ã\u201a (401)466-8978<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><(401)%20466-8978><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Ã\u201a<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>[image: EEI logo] <a href="http://entech-engineering.com"><http://entech-engineering.com></a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches</a>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>org/maillist.html<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches</a>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>org/maillist.html<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches</a>.<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>org/maillist.html<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>--<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Barton Churchill<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>406.587.5295<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>2430 North 7th Bozeman, MT 59715<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.solarips.com">www.solarips.com</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>"we go where powerlines don't"<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/">http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>e-mail <a href="mailto:offgridsolar@sti.net">offgridsolar@sti.net</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>text 209 813 0060<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><span style='font-size:10.0pt'> Christopher Warfel, PE<br> ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<br>PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<br> (401)466-8978</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'> <br><a href="http://entech-engineering.com"><span style='text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=201 height=89 style='width:2.0937in;height:.927in' id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01D3C043.7984E250" alt="EEI logo"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>