<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">I agree with Tom here about 2 strings. <div class="">And I have been told more than a few times in the last 22 years, from battery folks that there is no substitute for lead, in terms of capacity or longevity. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Here is a comparison I worked up for a job just the other day and I\u2019ll let you figure out which I\u2019m recommending.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Hup 6-100-33 12v 1550lbs ( includes steel case)</div><div class="">Trojan IND 33-2v 1668 lbs ( weight for 6 of them)</div><div class="">Rolls 2v20S33PS 1333 lbs. ( weight for 6 of them)</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">As to the Deka making their own lead, its more of a marketing gimmick really. </div><div class="">Just because you refine the lead, doesn\u2019t mean its better or worse than what others are using.</div><div class="">But does make for some good marketing.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I wouldn\u2019t touch the nickel iron. They are so crazy expensive. Yes I know some folks have had fantastic success with them, and I can tell you about many many others that didn\u2019t. </div><div class="">All the draw backs: hi discharge rates, hard to configure, unknown quality, etc.</div><div class="">If I was going to go NiFE, then I\u2019d consider lithium for sure. ( no not tesla arggg). </div><div class="">And i have had more than a few people considering industrial batteries, that I\u2019ve talked out of. Because I think lithium pricing and quality are going down and up respectively and you\u2019ll save money with a interim set of L-16\u2019s. If you get 3-4 years, I thing the price of lithium will come down in price more than the set of L-16\u2019s and you\u2019ll end up with a better system.</div><div class="">Lead is heading out.</div><div class="">But thats just my opinion. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Cheers,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">jay</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 15, 2015, at 11:34 AM, <a href="mailto:tom@wagonmaker.com" class="">tom@wagonmaker.com</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Dan,</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">That problem of no AC at remote sites while waiting for replacement batteries is why I always recommend at least two strings paralleled through a buss bar rather than across terminals. That way if one battery or cell fails in one series string you can very easily remove the string from the buss without any AC downtime at all. It reduces capacity but that's far better than no AC at all for a month. It's also my firm belief that it extends battery life with that configuration.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I understand the thinking that drives the push to single string installations but as someone who has lived off-grid for years in the past redundancy was more important to me than the alleged "ease" of a single string.</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Tom</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">On 2015-12-15 11:04, Dan Fink wrote:</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">While I also advocate single strings and minimizing parallel strings<br class="">when off the grid, single strings have one big problem, especially in<br class="">more remote areas and especially with 6 volt batteries - 1-4 weeks<br class="">downtime of the whole AC side of the system while waiting for a<br class="">replacement battery and trying to receive and then deliver and install<br class="">it. During a blizzard, as always, of course. (got a doozy going on in<br class="">Colorado right here right now).<br class="">If there's a parallel string available, it's quick to rewire and<br class="">bypass a string with a bad battery in it temporarily . And if they are<br class="">2v cells and only one has failed, some quick inverter / charger / PV<br class="">controller reprogramming and bypassing that cell can quickly make a<br class="">functionable 22v /46v battery bank that will get your client by<br class="">until a replacement 2v cell arrives. Won't work on 12v, 10v is too low<br class="">for most every modern piece of equipment except DC loads.<br class="">Dan Fink<br class="">Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute<br class="">IREC Certified Instructor\u2122 for: <br class="">~ PV Installation Professional<br class="">~ Small Wind Installer<br class="">Executive Director, Buckville Energy<br class="">NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers\u2122<br class="">970.672.4342 [11]<br class=""> <br class="">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 11:08 AM, Howie Michaelson<br class=""><<a href="mailto:howie@suncatchervt.com" class="">howie@suncatchervt.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">While I have no experience with HUP, I do have many years of experience with Rolls/Surrette. They are a robust battery, and in my opinion superior to Trojan and other mid-line flavors. I am not as adamant about staying away from L16s as Allan, although I'd whole-heartedly agree with keeping to one string wherever possible, and 2 at most.<br class="">Of course, going to the 2-volt batteries almost always allows for single strings, and give you a much more robust battery, and are often the right choice even for budget conscious clients. However, they are a much larger investment and take a much more robust charging system. Sometimes it makes sense to start a new off-gridder on a set of less expensive "training" batteries, depending on your assessment of their learning curve, motivation, and budget.<br class="">As with all batteries, there are occasional cell failures, likely attributable to manu defects. But I've found with Rolls, this is less common (except with the T12250 12-volt batteries which I have seen a significant failure rate over with the years). And I have never had trouble getting batteries covered under warranty from them if I determine that the failure was not likely operator error. But this is probably dependent upon having a good, trusting relationship with ones supplier, which I've always had with RAE Battery.<br class="">Howie<br class="">HOWIE MICHAELSON<br class="">_NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer\u2122_<br class="">Sun Catcher, LLC<br class="">Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service<br class="">VT Solar Electric Incentive Partner<br class="">802-272-0004 [10]<br class="">On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:37 PM, Allan Sindelar <<a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" class="">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class="">Drake,<br class="">Your request is missing specifics so my answer can only be generic. Get away from all L16s. Go to one string of industrial cells. There are numerous well-respected brands. I would put HUPs at about the top.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.hupsolarone.com/" class="">www.hupsolarone.com</a>[8]. Spend some time on this website and it will become more clear.<br class="">Allan<br class="">ALLAN SINDELAR<br class=""><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" class="">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a><br class="">NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br class="">NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional<br class="">New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br class="">Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.<br class="">505 780-2738 [9] CELL<br class=""> </blockquote></blockquote></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>