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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I would not classify what we are doing in PV as SCADA.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>It is purely data acquisition at this point, and more commonly referred to as DAS or a Data Acquisition System.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>SCADA by its definition entails a two way path of both receiving data and being able to send control signals, usually from a big picture program, monitoring dozens of data points.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Let’s not try to make the simple into a more complex thing than it is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>-Glenn<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 29, 2014 2:31 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Metering<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>The 2nd problem with the Envoy besides cost is that it isn't always reliable. Communication through power lines is not a new or fresh idea, and has Always been problematic. Once you install something you are expected to make it work, and that can be a nightmare on say an 8 module system that keeps losing communication to one or two modules. I've had this exact case, and confirmed multiple times that each micro was working, but the Envoy had other ideas.<br>This rush to mega data acquisition makes sense for larger PPA systems, but can just add tons of call backs and the resulting financial losses and frustrations for small systems.<br>I've spent as much time messing with SCADA, as I have with the entire install itself; now that's ridiculous. This isn't new either: I had SCADA systems back in the 90s, that had great promise, but ultimately were extremely hard to implement, and the customer never used after anyway......<br>The question is: <br>What does the customer really need to operate the system vs. "bells and whistles".....<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>R.Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CTO, Solarray, Inc<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Nabcep Certified PV Installer, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Licensed Master Electrician<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Solar Design Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>303 505-8760<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 9/29/2014 12:12 PM, August Goers wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Hi Bill,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>One of the largest benefits of the microinverter system, in my opinion, is the ability to monitor each module individually. It might seem like ~$500 is a lot for the Envoy but I think it is well worth it when you think about the 25 year warranty period and included ongoing monitoring. We’ve had enough Enphase failures that I would personally really want to be able to keep my eye on each micro individually.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'>Just a thought, August</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#44546A'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>frenergy<br><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:26 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> [RE-wrenches] Metering</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>CA wrenches,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> I'm trying to (for the sake of my monetarily impaired customers) figure out a less expensive way to meter/monitor small enphase systems. One of my local utilities will allow me to just use a remanufactured utility-grade meter (ala AEE) These meters are inexpensive, robust and accurate but only display total production. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> The Envoy retails for over $5 bills. Most of my customers are not interested in checking their PV system on the internet, well not after a couple weeks. I can't seem to find any requirement from PG&E other than in Section 5.1 of the guidebook: " All systems receiving an EPBB incentive must install a production meter accurate to +- 5% of actual system output...." which is pretty vague. plus the is no CSI incentive anymore.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Anybody have a suggestion that is different from the remanu utility meter?....and possibly gives current wattage output, and is "approved" by PG&E interconnection?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>TIA<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Bill<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><img border=0 width=306 height=103 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CFDC21.F4CCD5D0"><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Change listserver email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html">http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Check out or update participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>