<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Sorry, typo - that's a 48V string (one string of 8 batteries).</div><br><div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session" href="http://WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session">
<div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="margin:0 0 8px 0"><p style="margin:0"><span><span>Jason Szumlansk</span></span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">\u200bi</span></p>
<p></p><p style="margin:0"><span><span></span></span></p><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Fafco Solar</div><p></p><div style="clear:both"></div></div><img src="https://wisestamp.appspot.com/pixview.gif?p=chrome&v=3.42.0&t=1404328593153&u=d0c775731865b324" width="1" height="1"></div>
<img src="http://ws-stats.appspot.com/ga/pixel.png?yes__count=true&e=legacy_impression"></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 3:15 PM, Jason Szumlanski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jason@fafcosolar.com" target="_blank">jason@fafcosolar.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial"><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
\u200bEven at 9600W, which is above the 5 second surge rating of the inverter,\u200b we're looking at about 200A on the DC side, which would be a 1-hr rate on an L-16 string. While that is high, it should not be an issue. Even at the 1ms surge of 16,800W, a 48 string of L16's should be able to handle that.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Jason Szumlanski</span><br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra" style="font-family:arial"><div href="http://WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session"><div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><div style="margin:0px 0px 8px">
<p style="margin:0px"></p><div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">\u200bFafco Solar\u200b</div><br> <p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Roy Butler <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:roy@four-winds-energy.com" target="_blank">roy@four-winds-energy.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>I haven't seen anyone mention the
battery bank. If I understand correctly, there's a single string
of sealed<br>
L16 batteries on this inverter. I have my doubts as to whether or
not that bank can provide the high current<br>
the inverter needs to start this load.<br>
<pre cols="72">Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
IREC Certified Master Trainer\u2122 for Small Wind Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
<a href="tel:607-324-9747" value="+16073249747" target="_blank">607-324-9747</a> <a href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com" target="_blank">www.four-winds-energy.com</a>
Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference
A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors
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Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
</pre><div><div>
On 7/2/2014 2:10 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:<br>
</div></div></div>
<blockquote type="cite"><div><div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">To further qualify my
statements, the inverter will start the pump without issue,
but I should echo the warnings by others that if there are
other loads present, especially other motor loads that could
start \u200bconcurrently, you may experience issues. As long as
your customer understands the limitations and possibilities,
you may be just fine.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div href="http://WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session">
<div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="margin:0px 0px 8px">
<p style="margin:0px"><span><span>Jason Szumlanski</span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span><span></span></span></p>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">\u200b
Fafco Solar\u200b</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<img src="http://ws-stats.appspot.com/ga/pixel.png?yes__count=true%20&e=legacy_impression"></div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:00 AM,
Jason Szumlanski <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jason@fafcosolar.com" target="_blank">jason@fafcosolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">For what
it's worth, I've run a single speed 1.5HP pool pump
with a MS4448PAE in a mobile application on a 38.4kWh
battery bank (sixteen Rolls S-530's). I have also run
a 2.5HP Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed pool pump at
full RPM, but that startup current is likely less than
you well pump.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'm going to
guess your 3/4HP well pump will be a breeze to start
with this inverter.</div>
<br>
<br>
<div href="http://WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session">
<div style="font-size:13px;font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<div style="margin:0px 0px 8px">
<p style="margin:0px"><span><span>Jason Szumlanski </span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px"><span><span></span></span></p>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">\u200b
Fafco Solar\u200b</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Allan Sindelar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<div>Drake,<br>
As a normal CYA, I'll always gently let a
customer know that this (or any) particular
combination of inverter and load sometimes
proves incompatible, just in case the unexpected
happens. (We once had a MS4448 that would not
reliably start and run a condensing boiler; a
switch to a different boiler resolved the
issue.)<br>
<br>
Having said that note of caution, I wouldn't
give it any concern. 3/4 HP and 1 HP well pumps
have never been an issue; I would expect 1.5 HP
to be easy to run. At 2 HP I'd be asking these
questions here. <br>
<br>
You might check that it's a 3-wire,
capacitor-start motor, but nowadays nearly all
are. Two-wire pumps (with no control box) can
add 50% to the surge.<br>
<br>
The Magnum has a fairly poor voltage regulation
response. Sometimes the AC voltage can drop to
~80 VAC momentarily. So you might also caution
your customer that the lights may flicker when
the pump starts. In our home we know whenever
our Kenmore fridge turns on.<br>
<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt"><a href="mailto:allan@sindelarsolar.com" target="_blank">allan@sindelarsolar.com</a></span><br>
<span style="font-size:10pt">NABCEP
Certified PV Installation Professional<br>
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales
Professional<br>
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
Founder (Retired), <span>Positive
Energy, Inc.</span><br>
<b><a href="tel:505%20780-2738" value="+15057802738" target="_blank">505
780-2738</a> cell</b><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div> On 7/2/2014 8:17 AM, Drake wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div> Hello Wrenches,<br>
<br>
We are hoping to use a Magnum PAE 4448 to
back up a household that includes a 3/4 HP
deep well pump. There is about 120 feet of
vertical rise and about 1000 feet of
horizontal distance. <br>
<br>
I have been told that there is a correlation
between the locked rotor current of a pump
and the predictable ability of a specified
inverter to power that pump. <br>
<br>
The plumber who installed the pump left no
paperwork and retained no records of what
pump he put in the hole last year. He could
only say it was a 3/4 HP pump. We are
therefore unable to obtain the
manufacturer's nameplate specifications.<br>
<br>
The Magnum PAE 4448 has a 1 mS surge of 70 A
(at 240 V) and a 100 MS surge of 40 A.
According to the NEC Table 430.251(A), a 3/4
HP motor has a locked rotor current of 41.4
amps at 230 V. <br>
<br>
This inverter can surge at 35.4 A for 5
seconds. The specified battery bank will be
8 Full River L-16 AGMs. Can anyone say if:
<ul>
<li>Is there enough information to know if
this setup will handle the pump, and if
so, will it? </li>
<li>How can an inverter's ability to power
a motor or pump be calculated by knowing
its locked rotor current? Which surge
periods should be compared to the locked
rotor current? </li>
<li>Does the surge current need to equal
locked rotor. How long must the inverter
meet its required maximum surge? </li>
<li>From experience with Magnums and
pumps, does this seem like a good
combination? </li>
</ul>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Drake <br>
<br>
Drake Chamberlin<br>
<i>Athens Electric LLC<br>
OH License 44810<br>
CO License 3773<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV <br>
<a href="tel:740-448-7328" value="+17404487328" target="_blank">740-448-7328</a><br>
</i><a href="http://athens-electric.com/" target="_blank">http://athens-electric.com/</a> </div>
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