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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Approx.. 50 – 60ft.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kirk Herander<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>VT Solar, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>dba Vermont Solar Engineering<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NABCEP<sup>TM </sup>Certified Inaugural Certificant<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NYSERDA-eligible Installer<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>VT RE Incentive Program Partner<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>802.863.1202<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 04, 2014 4:05 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] conductors and the 120% rule<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>What is the length of the conduit to the subpanel? That will determine whether to apply the derates.<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>R.Ray Walters<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>CTO, Solarray, Inc<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Nabcep Certified PV Installer, <o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Licensed Master Electrician<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>Solar Design Engineer<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>303 505-8760<o:p></o:p></pre><p class=MsoNormal>On 3/4/2014 1:34 PM, Kirk Herander wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Whether or not a further derate has to be applied is the killer here, as I am working with existing panels and conductors. In an old Code Corner(HP140) J. Wiles goes through a similar scenario and calls out the allowable current rating and conductor in 310.15, but makes no mention of applying additional derate factors. The .8 derate for 4-6 conductors(l1,l2,l3, & n) will put the existing 4/0 cable between feed-in and main panel at 208 amps, less than the allowable 217. I’d hate to need to upsize the wire to 250 mcm.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Kirk Herander</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>VT Solar, LLC</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>dba Vermont Solar Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NABCEP<sup>TM </sup>Certified Inaugural Certificant</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>NYSERDA-eligible Installer</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>VT RE Incentive Program Partner</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>802.863.1202</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a> [<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 04, 2014 2:57 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] conductors and the 120% rule</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Both the bus and conductors need to be rated for 217 amps minimum. As you mentioned, the bus is not a problem. The way I interpret it, the conductor size required would be after derate factors are applied. The rating of the conductor is ultimately dependent on the derate factors.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>If you can locate your subpanel adjacent to the main distribution panel, you may be able to use Exception #3 to 310.15(B)(2) by connecting the panels with a short nipple. I assume you are just looking at a number of conductor derate and not an ambient temperature derate.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p><div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session"><div><div style='margin-bottom:6.0pt'><p style='margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Jason Szumlanski</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'>Fafco Solar</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";border:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in'><img border=0 width=1 height=1 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image001.jpg@01CF37C5.AF199C90" alt="Description: Image removed by sender."></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Kirk Herander <<a href="mailto:kirk@vtsolar.com" target="_blank">kirk@vtsolar.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>I have a 225 amp 3-phase main lug sub-panel protected by a 200 amp breaker. My inverter breaker feeding the sub panel is 60 amps. So 225 a bus x 1.2 = 270 amps. That’s less than the sum of the two breakers of 260 amps, so no issue there. The conductors between sub and main panel have to be rated for at least 260/1.2 = 217 amps, correct? Is this 217 amps before or after derating the conductor?</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>Kirk Herander</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>VT Solar, LLC</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>dba Vermont Solar Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>NABCEP<sup>TM </sup>Certified Inaugural Certificant</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>NYSERDA-eligible Installer</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'>VT RE Incentive Program Partner</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style='font-size:14.0pt'><a href="tel:802.863.1202" target="_blank">802.863.1202</a></span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p><pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre><pre>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Change email address & settings:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List-Archive: <a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre><pre>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></pre><pre><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre><pre><o:p> </o:p></pre></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></body></html>