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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">What is the length of the conduit to
      the subpanel? That will determine whether to apply the derates.<br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760</pre>
      On 3/4/2014 1:34 PM, Kirk Herander wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:002101cf37e9$272b4ad0$7581e070$@vtsolar.com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Whether
            or not a further derate has to be applied is the killer
            here, as I am working with existing panels and conductors.
            In an old Code Corner(HP140) J. Wiles goes through a similar
            scenario and calls out the allowable current rating and
            conductor in 310.15, but makes no mention of applying
            additional derate factors. The .8 derate for 4-6
            conductors(l1,l2,l3, &amp; n) will put the existing 4/0
            cable between feed-in and main panel at 208 amps, less than
            the allowable 217. I&#8217;d hate to need to upsize the wire to
            250 mcm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">Kirk
            Herander<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">VT
            Solar, LLC<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">dba
            Vermont Solar Engineering<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">NABCEP<sup>TM
            </sup>Certified Inaugural Certificant<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">NYSERDA-eligible
            Installer<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">VT
            RE Incentive Program Partner<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D">802.863.1202<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:14.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">
            <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
            [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b>On
              Behalf Of </b>Jason Szumlanski<br>
            <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 04, 2014 2:57 PM<br>
            <b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
            <b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] conductors and the 120%
            rule<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
        <div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Both
                the bus and conductors need to be rated for 217 amps
                minimum. As you mentioned, the bus is not a problem. The
                way I interpret it, the conductor size required would be
                after derate factors are applied. The rating of the
                conductor is ultimately dependent on the derate factors.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                style="font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">If
                you can locate your subpanel adjacent to the main
                distribution panel, you may be able to use Exception #3
                to 310.15(B)(2) by connecting the panels with a short
                nipple. I assume you are just looking at a number of
                conductor derate and not an ambient temperature derate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
          <div id="WISESTAMP_SIG_gmail_session">
            <div>
              <div style="margin-bottom:6.0pt">
                <p style="margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Jason
                    Szumlanski<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;">Fafco
                      Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><br>
                    &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                  style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;border:solid
                  windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in"><img
                    id="Picture_x0020_1"
                    src="cid:part1.07000805.02010703@solarray.com"
                    alt="Description: Image removed by sender."
                    height="1" width="1"></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Kirk
                Herander &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                  href="mailto:kirk@vtsolar.com" target="_blank">kirk@vtsolar.com</a>&gt;
                wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
              <div>
                <div>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">Hello,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">I have a 225 amp 3-phase
                      main lug sub-panel protected by a 200 amp breaker.
                      My inverter breaker feeding the sub panel is 60
                      amps. So 225 a bus x 1.2 = 270 amps. That&#8217;s less
                      than the sum of the two breakers of 260 amps, so
                      no issue there. The conductors between sub and
                      main panel have to be rated for at least 260/1.2 =
                      217 amps, correct? Is this 217 amps before or
                      after derating the conductor?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">Kirk Herander</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">VT Solar, LLC</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">dba Vermont Solar
                      Engineering</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">NABCEP<sup>TM </sup>Certified
                      Inaugural Certificant</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">NYSERDA-eligible
                      Installer</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt">VT RE Incentive Program
                      Partner</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                      style="font-size:14.0pt"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="tel:802.863.1202" target="_blank">802.863.1202</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
                </div>
              </div>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
          </div>
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