<div dir="ltr">HellermannTyton has a free solar sample pack with various UV stable cable ties, stainless ties, labels, etc. I got my vendor to send one and from that ordered a bunch of useful items.</div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:31 PM, Benn At DayStarSolar <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:benn@daystarsolar.ca" target="_blank">benn@daystarsolar.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><div>SS cable ties for ~.33/ea</div><div><a href="http://electricalwireties.com" target="_blank">http://electricalwireties.com</a><br><br><div><span>benn</span></div><div><span>Sent from a 'smart' phone, with touch screen keys. Please excuse shortcuts and typos.</span></div>
</div><div class="im"><div><br>On Nov 14, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Ray Walters <<a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" target="_blank">ray@solarray.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div></div><div><div class="h5"><blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>Where are you buying them from? I am
so ready to move away from plastic zip ties. 59 cents is quite a
bit, but that's actually doable. Last time I looked at SS ties,
they were a couple bucks each.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<pre cols="72">R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
<a href="tel:303%20505-8760" value="+13035058760" target="_blank">303 505-8760</a></pre>
On 11/14/2013 9:41 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Bill.....we have been using the Hellerman Tyton
Sunbundler cable ties....They are braided stainless steel wire
with a UV resistant vinyl jacket....We have been getting them in
quantities of 500 for approximately $.59 each....for the 12"
length ties....We like them alot....they do not have any sharp
edges and are easy to install....
<div>
Hope that helps....</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Sunny Regards,<br>
Kirpal Khalsa<br>
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
<a href="http://www.oregonsolarworks.com" target="_blank">www.oregonsolarworks.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:541-218-0201" value="+15412180201" target="_blank">541-218-0201</a> m<br>
<a href="tel:541-592-3958" value="+15415923958" target="_blank">541-592-3958</a> o</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 7:46 AM,
frenergy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:frenergy@psln.com" target="_blank">frenergy@psln.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>William, Bill....from another Bill,</div>
<div></div>
<div> Two things: For the rest of us (maybe it's
just me?!) that's still trying to figure out how (or
why)to stuff a MC4 connector into conduit and my
hesitation in using SS wire ties for fear of the sharp
edges cutting or chaffing into cables, I'm open for
advice.Any wire I use on the roof is rated for that
type of service and I have some off-grid systems that
have been in the sun for some 25 years where the wire
still looks nearly new even when flexing it tolook for
checking/cracks. It seems thewire/insulation can take
it, thus it seems like the key to "wire management is to
keep the wire from moving and off the roof, secured to
the racking, thus not compromising the insulation.</div>
<div></div>
<div> I know many on this list are way past this
point in their installation skills. However my living
in a county in the bush of just 20K folks, I haven't had
the opportunity to install 100's of systems....yet.
Again, I express my humble appreciation of experienced
wrenches to help those of us working to install the
tightest systems possible despite living in the
boonies. </div>
<div></div>
<div> Details on where to source appropriate SS
wire ties (rounded edges?, plastic coated?) would be
appreciated. My goto place for such things (Grainger)
has "regular" SS wire ties that range from $1.50 to $3
each, but none that I can see that address the sharp
edge issue...or is that an issue? Have people been
using regular SS wire ties in the field for 10-20 years,
behind a roof mounted array without any issues related
to the wire ties?</div>
<div>Thanks for your help and patience,</div>
<div></div>
<div>Bill </div>
<div></div>
<div>Feather River Solar Electric<br>
4291 Nelson St.<br>
Taylorsville, CA 95983<br>
<a href="tel:530.284.7849" value="+15302847849" target="_blank">530.284.7849</a>
/ 6544 fax</div>
<div><font size="1">"solar powered since 1982"</font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div></div>
<div>----- Original Message -----
<div>From: "Bill Loesch" <<a href="mailto:solar1online@charter.net" target="_blank">solar1online@charter.net</a>></div>
<div>To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>></div>
<div>Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 1:34 AM</div>
<div>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Wiring methods</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
> <br>
> Hi William (and any other person who wishes to
describe themselves as <br>
> professional (designer, installer, etc.)),<br>
> <br>
> Please accept this note as confirmation that your
evangelism on wire <br>
> management has not fallen on entirely deaf ears.<br>
> <br>
> Additionally, I'm curious how the practice of
requiring a ten year <br>
> equipment warranty squares with the acceptance of
plastic wire ties.<br>
> <br>
> Sincere thanks from one convert,<br>
> <br>
> Bill Loesch<br>
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 3:41 PM, William Miller
wrote:<br>
> <br>
>> Bill:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I respectfully disagree with your logic:
Define "perfectly <br>
>> installed." If<br>
>> your connections are tight and permanent and
the conductors are <br>
>> protected<br>
>> from damage, you have a great chance of a
reliable, safe lifetime of<br>
>> service. How can you guarantee that your
leads will stay protected <br>
>> after<br>
>> the ties fail? Studies show that even UV
resistant wire ties will <br>
>> fail well<br>
>> before the life expectancy of the system has
expired. When the ties <br>
>> fail,<br>
>> your PV leads are hanging on the roof. Even
before the ties fail, <br>
>> rodents<br>
>> can chew on them. Conduit was invented for a
reason and we should be <br>
>> using<br>
>> it.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I agree that arc-fault breakers will improve
the situation, but I <br>
>> don't<br>
>> think any form of OCPD is a substitute for
good wiring practices. I <br>
>> think<br>
>> wire protection is just as important on PV
circuits as it is on any <br>
>> other<br>
>> high voltage circuit. Try getting away with
wiring a rooftop air<br>
>> conditioning unit by tying the conductors to
some metal framework with<br>
>> plastic ties and see how long it takes to get
red-tagged by your local<br>
>> inspector.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I suspect we've gotten to where we are on lax
wire protection <br>
>> standards for<br>
>> two reasons:<br>
>><br>
>> 1. In the early days, PV was low voltage,
12 to 24 volts, and was <br>
>> treated<br>
>> as such, even though current capabilities
exceeded that of <br>
>> conventional low<br>
>> voltage thermostat, door-bell and telephone
wiring.<br>
>><br>
>> 2. It is my understanding that PV wiring
standards in Europe are <br>
>> not<br>
>> stringent, and European demand drove the PV
market for many years. <br>
>> Products<br>
>> were built to satisfy the European market and
US standards had to work <br>
>> with<br>
>> the equipment available.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Some would say: "if it is under the array, it
is protected." We have <br>
>> seen<br>
>> PV wire getting damaged under arrays and it
is possible to get damaged <br>
>> under<br>
>> BPIV components as well. I believe that
protecting PV wire is more<br>
>> important than protecting conventional AC
circuit wiring because PV <br>
>> circuits<br>
>> are more prone to create and sustain arcing.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Some say that protecting PV wire in conduits
will add too much expense <br>
>> to PV<br>
>> installations. Consider the cost of fires
and, inevitably, injuries <br>
>> and<br>
>> deaths. One news story about an obscure,
rarely used product is <br>
>> already<br>
>> causing many of us headaches. Statistically,
it is inevitable that <br>
>> more<br>
>> accidents will happen. I don't want that on
my conscience.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I would suggest that we need to expand the
discussion beyond fire <br>
>> hazards.<br>
>> I also worry about electrocution hazards in
high voltage PV circuits. <br>
>> Good<br>
>> wire protection is essential in preventing
contact with high voltages.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Unprotected PV wiring is an irresponsible
practice. I am fighting an <br>
>> uphill<br>
>> battle to develops methods to protect PV
wiring because the industry <br>
>> is not<br>
>> helping at all. The trend has been to make
it harder to protect <br>
>> wiring.<br>
>> This trend will result in accidents. I think
we should do better.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Sincerely,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> William Miller<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: <a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]
On Behalf Of Bill <br>
>> Brooks<br>
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:38 PM<br>
>> To: 'RE-wrenches'<br>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches
Digest, Vol 6, Issue 423<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> William and David,<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> This particular problem goes away with arc
fault detection. The longer <br>
>> we<br>
>> wait to introduce arc fault detection into
our systems, the more we <br>
>> will<br>
>> have opportunities for news reports such as
the one William brings <br>
>> forward.<br>
>> Wire ties are not the problem. Could a wire
tie cause a problem-sure, <br>
>> just<br>
>> like anything improperly installed.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> At the end of the day, you can a have a
perfectly installed system, <br>
>> but if<br>
>> it does not have arc fault detection and high
resolution ground fault<br>
>> detection, it can still catch on fire. You
have no control over <br>
>> product<br>
>> failures other than buying from large
companies that can actually <br>
>> insure<br>
>> their products in a failure.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Fires are not that common, but it didn't tak</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>_______________________________________________</span><div class="im">
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