<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Marco .. and Wrenches ..<br><br>I'm going to take a run at this -- just once.<br><br>First ...<br><br>Without proper and *accurate* data acquisition equipment, there's no way<br>to know what the actual available PV wattage is compared to the inverter's<br>output wattage when its output is being *LIMITED*. This limiting action<br>occurs in an inverter when there's more available power at the input than<br>the inverter can produce at its output. Subsequently, you don't know how<br>much potential energy wasn't harvested.<br><br>Now then ...<br><br>Let's say the inverter is producing 216 watts, and the PV *could* produce<br>227.3 watts at max power point under those specific conditions if every<br>PV-generated milliwatt were used.<br><br>Next, and presuming the inverter is 95% efficient, that's a "limited loss" of<br>ONE WATT. 227.3 x 95% =
215.94 watts (OK, so I fudged 0.06 watt).<br>Under what conditions (and since you're in Hawaii, I'll use 70F) would this<br>occur, and with what size PV?<br><br>I went to my magic spreadsheet and grabbed the first 270-watt-rated PV I<br>could find. NESL DJ-270P,.<br><br>YOU think it's producing 270 watts. It's not. At 77F (25C), and under the<br>conditions of 100% irradiance, perfectly orthogonal to the sun at mid-day,<br>light wind, that particular PV will produce 227 watts +/- its tolerance.<br>(Let's say the tolerance is dead on.)<br><br>Now, consider the benefit of increased energy output due to more rapid<br>output wattage rise experienced during early morning, and the higher<br>output later in the afternoon, AS WELL AS the increased power output<br>realized during periods of less than 100% irradiance one derives from<br>using larger PV compared to PV you might consider "perfectly matched"<br>to the inverter.<br><br>ALL of this
adds up to more kilowatt-hours produced annually than had the<br>inverter been connected to your "perfect" PV that doesn't produce enough<br>wattage to have the inverter begin limiting its output. The "shoulders" of the<br>output wattage curve are steeper than with lower-wattage PV.<br><br>Granted you *could* connect the inverter to [say] a 450 watt PV module,<br>and >that< would truly be a waste of the PV wattage. There *is* a broad<br>"sweet spot" for AC Module inverters and microinverters alike, and it's<br>actually on the higher side of the PV's rated output wattage versus the<br>inverter's wattage rating. So, can you over-do it? Sure. But there IS an<br>overall kilowatt-hours-produced benefit for *modest* over-sizing the PV.<br><br>What I *can't* answer is the long-term effect this may have on the overall<br>life of the inverter. THAT depends on various intricate design considerations<br>that went into creating
the inverter in the first place.<br><br>This isn't an Enphase issue, nor are they trying to mislead you on this topic.<br>It's an industry-wide issue. Wrenches face it every time you designed a string<br>system, especially those being installed in regions with wide temperature<br>swings.<br><br>Trying to explain in depth the "how and why" slightly larger PV is of benefit<br>to a customer is like trying to explain photovoltaic equipment to the general<br>public.<br><br>As a competitor to Enphase .. I'm not coming to their defense. However,<br>what Nick said (below) IS fact.<br><br>Whether you elect to believe this or not is up to you.<br><br><br>Regards to all,<br><br><br>Dan Lepinski, Senior Engineer<br>Exeltech / Exeltech Solar Products<br><br>With 41 years experience as a design engineer in solar energy.<br><br><br><br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 3/23/13, Marco Mangelsdorf <i><marco@pvthawaii.com></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: Marco Mangelsdorf <marco@pvthawaii.com><br>Subject: [RE-wrenches] P1 micro performance<br>To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>Date: Saturday, March 23, 2013, 4:04 AM<br><br><div id="yiv1513471615"><style><!--
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--></style><div><div class="yiv1513471615WordSection1"><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";">Yes, I know that that screen shot was only a moment in time. Here it\u2019s only March and clipping is already taking place. Imagine what kind of clipping is going to take place at higher irradiance levels later in the year. Yes, the monitoring program cannot as of now quantify what kind of harvesting losses would take place over time compared to an identical array using Enphase micros. But the principle remains unchallengeable: not allowing for maximum kWh harvesting is plain and simple NOT the best design strategy.</span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",
"sans-serif";">\u201cSome clipping is good\u201d? You\u2019ve got to be joking. Not being able to harvest usable solar energy is good? What kind of optimal design philosophy is that?</span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";">As module outputs have been going up, Enphase has a vested interest in continuing to move product with little regard for the harvestable energy being essentially lost. Using larger micros that reduce or eliminate that clipping is prima facie a good thing if one cares about maximizing kWh harvest. As more micro products come on the product with higher outputs than the venerable and solid M215, Enphase risks being left behind and losing market share. I for one find that
\u201cwhite paper\u201d overly self-serving.</span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";"> </span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";">marco</span></p><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";"> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Soleil<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 21, 2013 8:04
PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] P1 micro performance</span></p></div><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div><div><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal">Good points David, we are in peak season for inverters to be limiting power. <br><br>Marco, your diagram shows that the modules are only overproducing the Enphase M215's output of 225 watts for a single 15 minute period during the day. That would only equate to about 3 watt-hours of lost power on a day when the modules are producing more than 1000 watt-hours. That tends to be in agreement with our study, which can be viewed at; <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/12/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf">http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphase.com/2011/12/Enphase_White_Paper_Module_Rightsizing.pdf</a>. </p></div><p class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal"> </p></div><p
class="yiv1513471615MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">Averaged across the entire year, this loss of power would total less than 0.1%, and would be less than 0.2% for a 265 watt module. Keep in mind that with degradation accounted for, you will see even less limiting in future years. I'd encourage Wrenches to look closely at the attached document. It is based upon real system production data from Enlighten compared against actual irradiance data.<br><br>Most analysts would agree that some "clipping" is good. You will have a better return on your investment when your DC to AC ratio is greater than one. In this case, bigger is better.</p></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></td></tr></table>