<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0" ><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">No. There's no increase in the waveform distortion when an inverter output<br>is being limited to some maximum output wattage.<br><br>(That's the exact reason *not* to call it "clipping". Clipping IS<br>distorted / distortion / harmonics.)<br><br>To ensure a grid-tied inverter IS operating at its maximum, the DC power<br>supplies used as the power source are rated much more than the inverter<br>wattage.<br><br>As part of the UL 1741 certification process, inverters must be operated<br>at 100% of their ratings (among other power levels.) Harmonics are<br>measured and quantified. If at any time the inverter exceeds the harmonic<br>limit allowed, it fails UL 1741.<br><br><br>Dan<br><br>--- On <b>Fri, 3/22/13, William Dorsett <i><wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net></i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);
margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: William Dorsett <wmdorsett@sbcglobal.net><br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] P1 micro performance<br>To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>Date: Friday, March 22, 2013, 9:52 AM<br><br><div id="yiv865640766"><style><!--
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--></style><div><div class="yiv865640766WordSection1"><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">OK, if the upper limit if the curve is \u201cflat topped\u201d do we get increased problems with harmonic noise at the knee as you would in modified \u201csquare\u201d wave?</span></p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;"> </span></p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Bill Dorsett</span></p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">Manhattan, KS</span></p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri", "sans-serif";color:#1F497D;">
</span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma", "sans-serif";"> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Brearley<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, March 22, 2013 8:43 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] P1 micro performance</span></p></div></div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">Thanks for the clarification. </p><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">FWIW: Flat topping is exactly what occurs. Inverter limiting clips the inverter output power curve (not the voltage or current wave
forms). The chart below has one data point for every hour of the year. The clipped/flat-top area is the result of the 225 kW inverter limiting the power output of a 385 kW array: </p><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><img id="yiv865640766f8fb8cd8-d25e-4e31-9e6b-39bd842364de" src="cid:1.2789855634@web141401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com" height="465" width="778"></p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">On Mar 22, 2013, at 1:07 AM, boB wrote:</p></div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><br><br></p><div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">On 3/21/2013 9:59 PM, Exeltech wrote:</p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;"><table class="yiv865640766MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;" valign="top"><p
class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">Wrenches,<br><br>I'm probably a lone voice on this .. and not intending to get overly picky.</p></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><br><br>No, two lonely voices, Dan.<br><br>I associate clipping with audio waveforms which stops<br>the negative or positive voltage peaks flat. Also called<br>flat-topping.<br><br>Limiting is like turning down the volume. The waveform<br>stays the same and does not distort as it would if it<br>were being flat topped (and flat bottomed)<br><br>Thanks !<br>boB<br><br><br><br><br><br></p><table class="yiv865640766MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;" valign="top"><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><br>Could we call power limiting what it is .. "limiting", and not "clipping"?<br><br>Clipping implies distortion, which isn't the case here. Limiting is just that.<br>The inverter
output is limited to some maximum value -- not "clipped".<br><br>The output power curve flattens when integrated over time, but this still isn't<br>distortion in the waveform. It's simply a point in the output where the derivative<br>is zero. Not increasing, not decreasing. Just .. zero. No additional increase<br>in the output for an increase in available energy at the input. Think "governor"<br>on an engine....<br><br>Thanks.<br><br><br>Dan Lepinski, Sr. Engineer<br>Exeltech / Exeltech Solar Products<br><br><br>--- On <b>Thu, 3/21/13, David Brearley <i><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:david.brearley@solarprofessional.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=david.brearley@solarprofessional.com"><david.brearley@solarprofessional.com></a></i></b> wrote:<br><br></p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><br>From: David Brearley <a rel="nofollow"
ymailto="mailto:david.brearley@solarprofessional.com" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=david.brearley@solarprofessional.com"><david.brearley@solarprofessional.com></a><br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] P1 micro performance<br>To: "RE-wrenches" <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" href="/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>Date: Thursday, March 21, 2013, 11:37 PM</p><div id="yiv865640766"><div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">Thanks for sharing the screen capture, Marco.</p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">Interesting issues to think about here. This is actually prime clipping season in many places (not sure about Hawaii) due to the cool weather. While there are more sun-hours in the summer, the cell temperatures are often high enough that you won't tend to see rated
power out of the modules. </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">While I'm not running performance models for work, the people who do are routinely increasing dc-to-ac ratios, often as high as 1.4-to-1. Having said that, most inverters aren't installed on a roof. (Not yet anyway.) </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal">I'd probably lean to a more conservative sizing ratio for micros. While I can imagine some scenarios where I'd be comfortable with a 215 W micro on a 265 W module\u2014like a flat roof install in Vermont, which reportedly doesn't see 1,000 W/m^2 very often\u2014I wouldn't try that here in Texas.</p></div></div></div></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"><br><br></p><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="yiv865640766MsoNormal"
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