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In my experience, at least my batteries need to be cycled. Here is
the data. <br><br>
AC coupled backup system. The batteries are usually only supplying
the inverter controls, with the pair of Outback 3524 inverters connected
but turned off at the Mate. 80 watts of pv is used for a battery
maintainer. The 2160 W of PV usually goes straight to the grid, and
is switched over when needed.<br><br>
The batteries will remain essentially dormant with self discharge and
control power somewhat balanced by a trickle charge coming from the small
sub array. The batteries hold around 25.2 volts over night.
When they drop to 25 or 24.8, I charge and often equalize them. <br><br>
Just equalizing will not make them hold at 25.2 V again. Even back
to back equalization will not keep the battery V from dropping to 25
almost immediately. If I switch to off grid mode for a night to
cycle the batteries and then bulk charge them, they will hold the
25.2 V again. <br><br>
I think cycling really is needed to mix up the acid. <br><br>
Drake <br><br>
<br>
At 09:40 PM 2/20/2012, you wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">I had always been under the
impression that too strong and acid is what<br>
softens and weakens the lead grid, dissolving the lead out of the plate.
<br>
Is it really true that water is the enemy of the plates?<br><br>
And if equalizing on occasion is all that is needed to break up the<br>
stratification of the electrolyte in a float service, what would the<br>
suggested frequency of equalizing be if the batteries do not need<br>
equalizing for other reasons?<br><br>
Thanks,<br>
Howie<br>
-- <br>
Howie Michaelson<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<br><br>
Catamount Solar, LLC<br>
Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service<br>
VT Solar Electric & Hot Water Incentive Partner<br>
<a href="http://www.catamountsolar.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.CatamountSolar.com</a><br>
802-272-0004<br><br>
<br>
On Sun, February 19, 2012 10:53 pm, Darryl Thayer wrote:<br>
> There is to much water under the bridge. It can't be
nothing. The<br>
> battery manufacture make the battery and then forms the plates, he
ships<br>
> the battery expecting and knowing that the user will cycle the
battery. <br>
> In the cycling process there are "chanels formed in the plate
for acid to<br>
> enter, and consequently the plate becomes a better plate. the
cycling<br>
> forces avenues to form, and as everyone knows the battery
capacity<br>
> increases. this increase is easy to see in the
performance. Then the<br>
> battery begins to very slowly lose capacity as the plates
detererate.over<br>
> several thousand cycles. <br>
> <br>
> The enlightenment here is the small minimum number of cycles it
takes to<br>
> maintain a battery. A flooded Lead antimomy battery has a self
discharge<br>
> rate, during that discharge H2SO4 becomes H2O the H2O rises to the
top,<br>
> leaving acid at the bottom. now you have stratification, in
the presence<br>
> of H2O the lead Oxide softens and will actually desolve.
the water and<br>
> acid need to be mixed, so a bubling action is rfquired, this is
<br>
> controlled over charge. So as long as the battery is equalized
that is<br>
> the only cycleing it needs per John and Jammie.<br>
> <br>
> Darryl <br>
><br>
><br>
> ________________________________<br>
> From: Maverick Brown [Maverick Solar]
<maverick@mavericksolar.com><br>
> To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
> Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 8:04 PM<br>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] cycling flooded batteries is not
necessary<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> Other than some<br>
> statements I have heard about battery reaching full capacity after
X<br>
> cycles...<br>
> Maybe that is a wives-tale as well.<br>
> <br>
> Otherwise, maybe I was not clear.<br>
> By cycling, I mean daily (or periodic) Absorbas I mentioned in the
email,<br>
> not<br>
> loading/draining the battery (other than the clear statement to test
to<br>
> see if<br>
> the system actually works as a backup systemevery once in a
while).No real<br>
> deep<br>
> draining necessary. For instance, after some months without issue,
one<br>
> customer<br>
> called in a panic because the electricity did go off one night and
they<br>
> had no<br>
> backup. Turns out, somehow they turned off the "Inverter"
function. Easy<br>
> solution, press a few buttons, etc. to turn on the<br>
> inverter.<br>
> <br>
> Maybe<br>
> all I need is a Time function attached to Selling, like the
Charge<br>
> function has<br>
> on some brands. Who knows.<br>
> <br>
> It is<br>
> clear that FLAs have a self discharge and some percent of capacity
is<br>
> obtained<br>
> during Absorb, so a long term Float only might reduce some of
the<br>
> batteries<br>
> capacity.<br>
> <br>
> Anyway, Outback does have the "Absorb before Sell"
function<br>
> when using the FN-DC in the system. Not sure about the newer version
of<br>
> hardware. The "Parameters Met" settings gave me fits until
I figured it<br>
> out.<br>
> Plus, the FN-DC is not free.<br>
> <br>
> The XW<br>
> has a function for Absorb before/during sell. I think it requires a
XW CC.<br>
> We<br>
> use every brand of CC appropriate for the site. Also, the setup<br>
> instructions<br>
> are weird in my mind since it requires the Grid Support Voltage
to<br>
> programmed to very high value. I wish they would just have added
the<br>
> function<br>
> "Enhanced Interactive Mode = Enable", etc.<br>
> <br>
> Ok,<br>
> enough rambling...<br>
> <br>
> Maverick<br>
> <br>
> <br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ________________________________<br>
> From: re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org<br>
>
[<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] On Behalf Of<br>
> toddcory@finestplanet.com<br>
> Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 3:37<br>
> PM<br>
> To: RE-wrenches<br>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] cycling flooded<br>
> batteries is not necessary<br>
><br>
> to<br>
> reiterate wrenches:<br>
> <br>
> two<br>
> battery manufacturers (surrette & trojan) have both stated there
is NO<br>
> NEED<br>
> to cycle floating, flooded lead-antimony batteries. i have heard
this<br>
> urban<br>
> legend for some time and it is nice to finally have it put to rest
as an<br>
> incorrect myth.<br>
> <br>
> todd<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On<br>
> Saturday, February 18, 2012 7:04am, "Doug Wells"<br>
> <dwells@thesolarspecialists.com> said:<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
> Maverick,<br>
>><br>
>> "But you would think after 20 years, inverter<br>
> manufacturers would make some<br>
>> software similar to generator cycling to<br>
> handle this cycling issue. "<br>
>><br>
>> I believe that the XW Inverters<br>
> have this ability in sell mode. There is<br>
>> traditional sell voltage. And<br>
> then there is a setting that puts the batteries<br>
>> through a traditional<br>
> bulk cycle while still "selling" back any excess
energy.<br>
>> The next<br>
> question would be, is this better for battery longevity. Seems like
a<br>
>><br>
> hybrid of the two would be ideal.<br>
>><br>
>> Doug Wells<br>
>> The Solar<br>
> Specialists<br>
>> Morrisville, VT 05661<br>
>> (p) 802-223-7014<br>
>> (c)<br>
> 802-498-5856<br>
>>
<a href="http://www.thesolarspecialists.com/" eudora="autourl">
www.thesolarspecialists.com</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
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<x-sigsep><p></x-sigsep>
<font size=2>Drake
Chamberlin<x-tab> </x-tab>
<br>
ATHENS ELECTRIC LLC<br>
OH License
44810<x-tab> </x-tab><br>
CO license 3773<br>
NABCEP Certified PV<br>
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