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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As long as “next gen” means “actually works reliably.” We gave up on TED after many failed installations due to interference and product failures. Unfortunately, the competitors we evaluated came up short on reliability and/or accuracy. We’re still crossing our fingers that Galtronics can come through with their SymHome devices.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>My opinion on this is that we really need Sq D or another major panelboard mfr to step up and make consumer grade breakers that communicate with a data collection device and Internet gateway. Forget the add-on gadgetry. Integrate it with the existing distribution hardware.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Jason Szumlanski<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Fafco Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Keith Cronin<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 19, 2011 2:04 PM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Perhaps as an add on value-relationship building component for your businesses, go introduce your clients, new and existing to The Energy Detective-<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="http://www.theenergydetective.com/ted-5002-g">http://www.theenergydetective.com/ted-5002-g</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>At the very least, you can help them, help you, monitor what they have and discern between whether their system is optimized and if not, the remedy.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>For folks in the industry, they have pricing below MSRP.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Relatively simple device and you can monitor the inverter(s) and the home load to get a comparative.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>They are working on the next gen of their product to be able to get granular on every load in the home, but this will be a boat load of CT's and MTU's, but I believe this will allow us all to identify phantom loads and help close the gap on maintenance and often expensive service calls for folks that are grid connected.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Keith<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> Mark Frye <markf@berkeleysolar.com><br><b>To:</b> 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 19, 2011 7:56 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div id=yiv168511304><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Ray,</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>Here are the nameplate module rating vs nameplate inverter rating:</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>- 24 x 175 W = 4,200 W : IG4000 = 4,000 W : 105 %</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>- 18 x 175 W = 3,150 W : IG3000 = 2,700 W : 117 %</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>- 8 x 175 W = 1,400 W : SB1100 = 1,100 W : 127 % (sub-optimal orientation limits peak power levels)</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>I think it is fair to say that amps=heat=component aging. The question is to what extent can the installer rely on the representations made by manufactures with respect to their ratings and product life?</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>For instance, the 24 module system above lands well within the Fronius specifications for max DC power and is "Good" based on their online configuration tool, and also well in line the the SMA white paper of many years ago suggesting a 120% mod/inv ratio as optimal.</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span class=yiv168511304375383917-19082011><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>And yet, the first unit failed in 4 years and the refurb failed in 2 year.</span></span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mark Frye</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Berkeley Solar Electric Systems</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>303 Redbud Way</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Nevada City, CA 95959</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(530) 401-8024</span><span style='color:black'> <br><a href="http://www.berkeleysolar.com/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.berkeleysolar.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ray Walters<br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 19, 2011 10:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Out of Warranty Inverter Replacements</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Hi Mark;<br><br>In cases like that, I let the customer decide. My job is to present them with two or three streamlined options and let them decide.<br>It seems it comes down to cost vs continued warranty (and possible expandability?). Financial decisions ultimately need to be made by the people paying the bill.<br>From a technical perspective, I don't ever present an option that I wouldn't be comfortable installing, and in the end everyone's happy. (hopefully)<br><br>Just curious; what are the array sizes relative to the inverter rating? I always wondered if inverters that were run at or over their rating didn't last as long as inverters that were run well below their rating. (just my stupid assumption that: more amps = more heat = less reliability)<br><br>Ray<br><br><br>On 8/19/2011 11:03 AM, Mark Frye wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Folks,</span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Yesterday I took a trip through my service area and initated 3 inverter replacement actions:</span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- A 6 year old Sunnyboy 1100W, 5 year warranty expired, $360 for a refurbished unit w/ 1 year warranty, new replacement not available</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- A 2 year old Fronius IG4000 refurbished, sent as warranty replacement for unit failed at 4 years under 5 year warranty, now out of warranty, est. $ 600 to refurbish with 1 year warranty</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- A 4 year old Fronius IG3000, under 10 year warranty, warranty replacement and service fee provided by Fronius</span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>I have to decide, what is best for my out of warranty customers:</span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- Buy the refurbished units w/ 1 year warranty</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- Buy new replacement units with 10 or 20 year warrranties</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>- Buy entirely new equipment such as Enphase or SolarEdge</span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>What are other folks experiencing as we move well past the 5 year warranty horizon for many of our earlier customers?</span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Mark Frye</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Berkeley Solar Electric Systems</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>303 Redbud Way</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Nevada City, CA 95959</span><span style='color:black'> <br></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>(530) 401-8024</span><span style='color:black'> <br><a href="http://www.berkeleysolar.com" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>www.berkeleysolar.com</span></a></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> </span><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre 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