<html><head><style type="text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></head><body><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><DIV>Jamie suggested a battery with a lower Sp Gr for hot conditions, he suggested 1240 instead of 1265. HOw would one get a 1240 battery? If a person boght a dry charged battery and diluted the acid to 1240 before adding it to the cell is thisi the recomended method? or must a one order a 1240 battery form the Factory? <BR>Darryl</DIV>
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<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> Roy Butler <roy@four-winds-energy.com><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Fri, April 22, 2011 2:48:53 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteries in high temperature climate<BR></FONT><BR>Hugh,<BR><BR>Correct to a point. But if we added 10% capacity, we would need to add a bit more<BR>charging capacity (PV/wind) and it begins to spiral up in cost. Much as I hated to see<BR>that AC unit there, it was still the more cost-effective solution for that specific system.<BR><BR>FYI- with the AC unit, we also eliminated a heat issue that we'd been dealing with on the <BR>upper Outback inverters on his dual quad stack setup. Yes, we had active ventilation, 4 levels <BR>to be exact but the fans themselves became part
of the problem with the increased power <BR>consumption.<BR><BR>So bottom line, because we killed 2 birds with one AC unit, I think it was a good move.<BR>And I've worked (successfully) to avoid ever having to use one again. I really do prefer simple,<BR>passive methods for solving problems like these.<BR><PRE class=moz-signature>Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747
<A class=moz-txt-link-abbreviated href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank>www.four-winds-energy.com</A>
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
</PRE><BR>On 4/22/2011 3:13 PM, Hugh wrote:
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<DIV>Hi Roy,</DIV>
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<DIV>Hi temperatures will hit the battery capacity but will the battery efficiency be that much affected? If the battery capacity is inadequate then you need to compare the aircon running cost to the cost of buying a 10% larger battery. Don't you?</DIV>
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<DIV>Cheers</DIV>
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<DIV>Hugh</DIV>
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<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite">Bob is correct, I do have an off grid client that uses an AC unit to keep the batteries cool.<BR>Although we're not in a high temp climate, it does get into the 80's and low 90's here<BR>in the summer.<BR><BR>By my calculations, he was losing an 'average' of 10% storage capacity during the 5 month<BR>period from late spring to early fall. In July and August it was closer to 18%, but for calculation<BR>purposes, 10% is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH @ 48 VDC. That's 230,400 watt hours<BR>and 10% of that rounds out to 23,000 watt hours lost to heat.<BR><BR>I showed up one day to check something in the power shed and was dismayed to see a window<BR>AC unit installed there. An interesting customer discussion ensued and I had to admit he was<BR>correct in his calculations.<BR><BR>The Energy Star rated AC unit consumes no more than 3,000 watt hours per day, even in the<BR>highest heat. Essentially, he's 'spending" 3
kilowatt hours to 'buy back' 20 kilowatt hours of<BR>storage. He got me on that one!<BR><BR>That reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC units that appeared on his house the following<BR>week. But that's another story altogether!</BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><TT>Roy Butler<BR>NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer<BR>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer<BR>PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer<BR>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<BR>8902 Route 46<BR>Arkport, NY 14807<BR>607-324-9747<BR><BR></TT><A href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank><TT>www.four-winds-energy.com</TT></A><TT><BR><BR>Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,<BR>a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.<BR><BR> <SPAN></SPAN> </TT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR>On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT color=#000000 size=+1 face=Calibri>I believe Roy has a customer with a huge battery bank that air conditioned the battery room. He ran the numbers and the air conditioning actually made sense.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT color=#000000 size=+1 face=Calibri>Bob Ellison</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT color=#000000 size=+1 face=Calibri> </FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=-1 face=Tahoma><B>From:</B></FONT> <A href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT size=-1 face=Tahoma>re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT size=-1 face=Tahoma> [</FONT><A href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><FONT size=-1 face=Tahoma>mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</FONT></A><FONT size=-1 face=Tahoma>]<B> On Behalf Of</B> R Ray Walters<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteies in high temperature climate</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman"> </FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Are you using temperature compensation? It lowers the voltage when its hot.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Also, have you considered setting the batteries in a below ground vault? I've had good luck with in floor battery boxes.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">Finally, AGMs and L16s just don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3 years, and L16s I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15 below zero.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">My suggestion: temp comp, ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle life.</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT color=#000000 size=-2 face=Helvetica>R. Walters</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><A href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><FONT color=#000000 size=-2 face=Helvetica>ray@solarray.com</FONT></A><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT color=#000000 size=-2 face=Helvetica>Solar Engineer</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Times New Roman">On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:22 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote:</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=-1 face=Arial>Hello Battery Wrenches,</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=+1 face=Helvetica> </FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=-1 face=Arial>Over the years I have had several battery banks in Baja and Sonora Mexico fail in just 36 to 48 months. These have been L16 or 8D AGM or flooded banks, 24 and 48 volt systems. The charging systems are working properly and programmed to manufacturer recommended set points and discharges are rarely over 30% DoD. Some batteries are only used on weekends, some are discharged daily. I believe what is affecting the short life is the high temperature they live in for 5 months each year. Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery rooms. I have been thinking about a small air conditioner and insulated battery box to keep the battery at no more than 80 F. There are some portable units that draw about 600 watts and the run time would be very little with a highly insulated enclosure. There is ample power to do this on the home I am changing batteries in now.
Has anyone done this and gained longer battery life?</FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=+1 face=Helvetica> </FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=-1 face=Verdana>Best Regards,</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE cite="" type="cite"><FONT size=-1 face=Verdana>Larry Crutcher<BR></FONT><A href="http://www.starlightsolar.com/" rel=nofollow target=_blank><FONT size=-1 face=Verdana>Starlight Solar Power Systems</FONT></A><FONT size=-1 face=Verdana><BR></FONT><FONT size=-2><BR><FONT color=#ff0000><I>powered by </I></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000 size=+1><I><B>S</B></I></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000 size=-1><I><B>TARLIGHT</B></I></FONT><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
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<DIV>Hugh Piggott<BR><BR>Scoraig<BR>http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk</DIV><PRE><FIELDSET class=mimeAttachmentHeader></FIELDSET>
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