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Hugh,<br>
<br>
Correct to a point. But if we added 10% capacity, we would need to
add a bit more<br>
charging capacity (PV/wind) and it begins to spiral up in cost. Much
as I hated to see<br>
that AC unit there, it was still the more cost-effective solution
for that specific system.<br>
<br>
FYI- with the AC unit, we also eliminated a heat issue that we'd
been dealing with on the <br>
upper Outback inverters on his dual quad stack setup. Yes, we had
active ventilation, 4 levels <br>
to be exact but the fans themselves became part of the problem with
the increased power <br>
consumption.<br>
<br>
So bottom line, because we killed 2 birds with one AC unit, I think
it was a good move.<br>
And I've worked (successfully) to avoid ever having to use one
again. I really do prefer simple,<br>
passive methods for solving problems like these.<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com">www.four-winds-energy.com</a>
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
</pre>
<br>
On 4/22/2011 3:13 PM, Hugh wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:p0623092fc9d78310d7c5@%5B10.0.2.2%5D"
type="cite">
<style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style>
<title>Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteries in
high</title>
<div>Hi Roy,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi temperatures will hit the battery capacity but will the
battery efficiency be that much affected? If the battery
capacity is inadequate then you need to compare the aircon
running
cost to the cost of buying a 10% larger battery. Don't
you?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Cheers</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hugh</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="">Bob is correct, I do have an off
grid
client that uses an AC unit to keep the batteries cool.<br>
Although we're not in a high temp climate, it does get into the
80's
and low 90's here<br>
in the summer.<br>
<br>
By my calculations, he was losing an 'average' of 10% storage
capacity
during the 5 month<br>
period from late spring to early fall. In July and August it was
closer to 18%, but for calculation<br>
purposes, 10% is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH @ 48
VDC.
That's 230,400 watt hours<br>
and 10% of that rounds out to 23,000 watt hours lost to heat.<br>
<br>
I showed up one day to check something in the power shed and was
dismayed to see a window<br>
AC unit installed there. An interesting customer discussion
ensued and
I had to admit he was<br>
correct in his calculations.<br>
<br>
The Energy Star rated AC unit consumes no more than 3,000 watt
hours
per day, even in the<br>
highest heat. Essentially, he's 'spending" 3 kilowatt hours to
'buy back' 20 kilowatt hours of<br>
storage. He got me on that one!<br>
<br>
That reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC units that appeared
on
his house the following<br>
week. But that's another story altogether!</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><tt>Roy Butler<br>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®<br>
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer<br>
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer<br>
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC<br>
8902 Route 46<br>
Arkport, NY 14807<br>
607-324-9747<br>
<br>
</tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com"><tt>www.four-winds-energy.com</tt></a><tt><br>
<br>
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message,<br>
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.<br>
<br>
<span></span> </tt></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><br>
On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="+1" color="#000000"
face="Calibri">I believe Roy has a customer with a huge
battery bank
that air conditioned the battery room. He ran the numbers
and the air
conditioning actually made sense.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="+1" color="#000000"
face="Calibri"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="+1" color="#000000"
face="Calibri">Bob Ellison</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="+1" color="#000000"
face="Calibri"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-1" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b></font>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font
size="-1" face="Tahoma">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></a><font
size="-1" face="Tahoma"> [</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org"><font
size="-1" face="Tahoma">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</font></a><font
size="-1" face="Tahoma">]<b> On Behalf Of</b> R Ray Walters<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for
batteies in
high temperature climate</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman">Are
you
using temperature compensation? It lowers the voltage when
its
hot.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman">Also,
have
you considered setting the batteries in a below ground
vault? I've had
good luck with in floor battery boxes.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman">Finally,
AGMs
and L16s just don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3
years,
and L16s I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15
below
zero.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman">My
suggestion: temp comp, ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle
life.</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-2" color="#000000"
face="Helvetica">R. Walters</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><font size="-2"
color="#000000" face="Helvetica">ray@solarray.com</font></a><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-2" color="#000000"
face="Helvetica">Solar Engineer</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-2" color="#000000"
face="Helvetica"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-2" color="#000000"
face="Helvetica"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-2" color="#000000"
face="Helvetica"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman">On
Apr 21,
2011, at 1:22 PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote:</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-1" face="Arial">Hello
Battery
Wrenches,</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="+1" face="Helvetica"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-1" face="Arial">Over
the
years I have had several battery banks in Baja and
Sonora Mexico fail in just 36 to 48 months. These have been
L16 or 8D AGM or flooded banks, 24 and 48 volt systems. The
charging systems are working properly and
programmed to manufacturer recommended set points and
discharges are rarely over 30% DoD. Some batteries are only
used on weekends, some are discharged daily. I believe what
is
affecting the short life is the high temperature they live
in for 5
months each year. Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery
rooms. I have
been thinking about a small air conditioner and insulated
battery
box to keep the battery at no more than 80 F. There are some
portable units that draw about 600 watts and the run time
would be
very little with a highly insulated enclosure. There is
ample power to
do this on the home I am changing batteries in now. Has
anyone done
this and gained longer battery life?</font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="+1" face="Helvetica"> </font><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-1" face="Verdana">Best
Regards,</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><br>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite=""><font size="-1" face="Verdana">Larry
Crutcher<br>
</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.starlightsolar.com/"><font size="-1"
face="Verdana">Starlight Solar Power Systems</font></a><font
size="-1" face="Verdana"><br>
</font><font size="-2"><br>
<font color="#ff0000"><i>powered by </i></font></font><font
size="+1" color="#ff0000"><i><b>S</b></i></font><font
size="-1" color="#ff0000"><i><b>TARLIGHT</b></i></font><br>
</blockquote>
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<x-sigsep>
<pre>--
</pre>
</x-sigsep>
<div>Hugh Piggott<br>
<br>
Scoraig<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk">http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk</a></div>
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