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    Bob is correct, I do have an off grid client that uses an AC unit to
    keep the batteries cool.<br>
    Although we're not in a high temp climate, it does get into the 80's
    and low 90's here<br>
    in the summer. <br>
    <br>
    By my calculations, he was losing an 'average' of 10% storage
    capacity during the 5 month<br>
    period from late spring to early fall. In July and August it was
    closer to 18%, but for calculation<br>
    purposes, 10% is close enough. His bank capacity is 4800AH @ 48 VDC.
    That's 230,400 watt hours <br>
    and 10% of that rounds out to 23,000 watt hours lost to heat. <br>
    <br>
    I showed up one day to check something in the power shed and was
    dismayed to see a window <br>
    AC unit installed there. An interesting customer discussion ensued
    and I had to admit he was <br>
    correct in his calculations.<br>
    <br>
    The Energy Star rated AC unit consumes no more than 3,000 watt hours
    per day, even in the<br>
    highest heat. Essentially, he's 'spending" 3 kilowatt hours to 'buy
    back' 20 kilowatt hours of<br>
    storage. He got me on that one!<br>
    <br>
    That reasoning didn't work on the 6 other AC units that appeared on
    his house the following<br>
    week. But that's another story altogether!<br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer&reg;
NYSERDA eligible PV &amp; wind installer
PA Sunshine Program Approved PV Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.four-winds-energy.com">www.four-winds-energy.com</a>

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

                
</pre>
    <br>
    On 4/22/2011 7:40 AM, bob ellison wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:00a801cc00e2$cb09d590$611d80b0$@com"
      type="cite">
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;">I
              believe Roy has a customer with a huge battery bank that
              air conditioned the battery room. He ran the numbers and
              the air conditioning actually made sense.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;">Bob
              Ellison<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" color="black" face="Calibri"><span
              style="font-size: 14pt; font-family:
              &quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color: black;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt
            medium medium; border-style: solid none none; border-color:
            rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;
            padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><span
                    style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                    &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;
                    font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
                size="2" face="Tahoma"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                  font-family:
                  &quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>
                  [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org">mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>] <b><span
                      style="font-weight: bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>R
                  Ray Walters<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                  Thursday, April 21, 2011 4:50 PM<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
                  RE-wrenches<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                  Re: [RE-wrenches] Air conditioning for batteies in
                  high temperature climate<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
              style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
              style="font-size: 12pt;">Are you using temperature
              compensation? It lowers the voltage when its hot.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;">Also, have you considered
                setting the batteries in a below ground vault? I've had
                good luck with in floor battery boxes.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;">Finally, AGMs and L16s just
                don't last very long anyway. AGMs maybe 3 years, and
                L16s I've seen die in under 5 years and we get to 15
                below zero.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;">My suggestion: temp comp,
                ground vault, HUP or equivalent cycle life.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
        </div>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
                    black;">R. Walters<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
                    black;"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                      href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
                    black;">Solar Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
                    black;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                  face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                    font-family:
                    &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
                    black;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="1" color="black"
                face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 9pt;
                  font-family:
                  &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;; color:
                  black;"><br>
                  <br>
                </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
          </div>
          <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></font></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                    style="font-size: 12pt;">On Apr 21, 2011, at 1:22
                    PM, Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            </div>
            <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"><span
                  style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
                  <br>
                  <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">Hello
                      Battery Wrenches,</span></font><font size="4"
                    face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
                      font-family:
                      &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Helvetica"><span
                      style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Arial"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">Over
                      the years I have had several battery banks in Baja
                      and Sonora&nbsp;Mexico&nbsp;fail in just 36 to 48 months.
                      These have been L16 or&nbsp;8D AGM or flooded banks, 24
                      and 48 volt systems. The charging systems are
                      working&nbsp;properly and programmed&nbsp;to&nbsp;manufacturer
                      recommended set points&nbsp;and discharges are
                      rarely&nbsp;over 30% DoD. &nbsp;Some batteries are only used
                      on weekends, some are discharged daily.&nbsp; I believe
                      what is affecting the short life is the high
                      temperature they live in for 5 months each year.
                      Temps. can hit 115 F in vented battery rooms. I
                      have been thinking about a small air conditioner
                      and insulated battery box&nbsp;to keep the battery at
                      no more than 80 F. There are some portable units
                      that draw about 600 watts and the run time would
                      be very little with a highly insulated enclosure.
                      There is ample power to do this on the home I am
                      changing batteries in now. Has anyone done this
                      and gained longer battery life?</span></font><font
                    size="4" face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size:
                      13.5pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="4" face="Helvetica"><span
                      style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">Best
                      Regards,</span></font><font size="4"
                    face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
                      font-family:
                      &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p><font size="2" face="Verdana"><span style="font-size:
                      10pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Verdana&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;">Larry
                      Crutcher<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="http://www.starlightsolar.com/">Starlight
                        Solar Power Systems</a><br>
                    </span></font><font size="1" face="Georgia"><span
                      style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Georgia&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;"><br>
                      <em><i><font color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                              style="font-family:
                              &quot;Georgia&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;
                              color: red;">powered by</span></font></i></em><span
                        class="apple-converted-space"><i><font
                            color="red"><span style="color: red;
                              font-style: italic;">&nbsp;</span></font></i></span></span></font><em><b><i><font
                          size="4" color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                            style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family:
                            &quot;Georgia&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;
                            color: red; font-weight: bold;">S</span></font></i></b></em><em><b><i><font
                          size="2" color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                            &quot;Georgia&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;
                            color: red; font-weight: bold;">TARLIGHT</span></font></i></b></em><font
                    size="2" color="red" face="Georgia"><span
                      style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                      &quot;Georgia&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;; color:
                      red;">&#8482;</span></font><font size="4"
                    face="Helvetica"><span style="font-size: 13.5pt;
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                      &quot;Helvetica&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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      <pre wrap="">
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