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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple style='WORD-WRAP: break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode: space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space'><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Does anyone know of a manufacturer or supplier of fused battery buss bars or battery string combiners (preferably using Class-T fuses) that are UL Listed for use in residential or commercial applications?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Brian Teitelbaum<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AEE Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom Elliot<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 20, 2011 11:36 AM<br><b>To:</b> RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>What? No royalties? Damn...(but thanks for the props) Sorry I misunderstood what you meant.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>My installs of buss bars back in the day had cable pairs of the same length but different pairs could be of different lengths with the consideration being bank construction. I’d use slightly oversized cables to minimize resistance differences. Since the cables from each string only carried current from that string it also made for easier installation. In these days of grid-tie I’m seeing less and less discussion of batteries, good to see another one happening even if it was prompted by a failure, though I guess that’s how we learn.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" title="ray@solarray.com">R Ray Walters</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Wednesday, April 20, 2011 8:16 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Tom; <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>That's exactly what Daryl and I were suggesting: all strings paralleled to a central combiner box with breakers on each series string.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The only thing I left out was that each cable set should be the same length ( which Daryl was already suggesting).<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>You need to reread what we were talking about. We got this idea from you many years ago, so the record is not broken;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>its been pirated, reposted for Free download on all sorts of unsavory sites, and you aren't getting a royalty check....<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, and this list listens to and appreciates you.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>R. Walters<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Solar Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Apr 19, 2011, at 10:16 PM, Tom Elliot wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>The broken record will now repeat himself yet again. Bussbars are the way to go, not across battery terminals but individual strings connected to a central positive and negative buss from which the inverter connection then runs. This allows fusing of each individual connection and also allows for smaller positive cables and no need to have identical length parallel cables since each string is independently connected. It’s what telecom installations use. The Telecom guys who showed me how to do it literally laughed when told about paralleling across battery terminals. They then told me they considered it profoundly stupid and dangerous and since I had just avoided a meltdown myself by catching a bad cell before complete failure I got the message pretty quick.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Really guys, this is amazingly simple and yes, it may mean a bit more cabling and another component but from a safety standpoint those considerations are pretty minor and cheap insurance against disaster.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'>Tom<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com" title="ray@solarray.com">R Ray Walters</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Sent:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Tuesday, April 19, 2011 6:01 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>To:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:whitesmoke'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Subject:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> Re: [RE-wrenches] Batteries in parrallel Failure<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I like the fused parallel idea; could save the system, and would make battery troubleshooting nice. <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I would suggest #6 jumpers with 50 to 60 amp breakers, so the system could be operated on just a few strings if needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>R. Walters<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>Solar Engineer<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br></span><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>On Apr 19, 2011, at 8:29 PM, Darryl Thayer wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><br><br><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Batteries in parallel, How to protect from catastrophic failure.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I just got contacted to commission a solar system off grid not of my design. Eight battery strings in parallel, AGM batteries, 24 volts @ 120 AH each string (two 12 volt in series) New system, new batteries, Silent POwer Inverter. Two kW DC array. generator to charge through Silent power. (present installer is not sure how to do final set up and testing) <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I am most concerned about 8 batteries in parallel, (especially since last week a set of AGM burned up having 5 in parallel Owner had no way to break the paralleling of the batteries, she could only stop the chargeing) What I am proposing for your review is requireing the installtion of two combiner boxes Midnight solar with a breaker in each battery string, using about 3' of #10 to connect each battery string to the combiner box. This way if a battery failed and the paralled strings were to "dump" into the failed battery it would trip the breaker. I was thinking of using a 30 amp breaker in each string. The main breaker is set at 240 amps. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Ideas Please? <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:13.5pt'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br><br>Check out participant bios:<br>www.members.re-wrenches.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=avgcert><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com/">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3584 - Release Date: 04/19/11<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br><br>Check out participant bios:<br>www.members.re-wrenches.org<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<br><br>Options & settings:<br>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org<br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<br><br>Check out participant bios:<br>www.members.re-wrenches.org<o:p></o:p></span></p><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=avgcert><span style='font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>No virus found in this message.<br>Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com">www.avg.com</a><br>Version: 10.0.1321 / Virus Database: 1500/3584 - Release Date: 04/19/11<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>