<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">One AHJ actually got me on this with sealed batteries. I've blown the seal out overcharging a sealed battery too, so this is a real possibility. The venting requirements are not near as stringent though as for a flooded cell. Article 480 says we need to prevent the build up of explosive gases, which isn't very hard considering how hard it is to contain hydrogen. I demonstrated to the AHJ that the steel enclosure had a 1/4" gap x 12' of edge around the door (36 sq in) which is more venting than a 6" diam PVC pipe.<div>I also showed that hydrogen does not become explosive until you reach over a 4% hydrogen to air mixture, so you have to consider the volume of the battery box as well.</div><div>He accepted all of this, which was good, because the battery box was set into the ground (for thermal stabilization) and would have been very hard to change.</div><div>(He still made me change one PVC elbow to Schedule 80, what a stickler!)<br><div><br></div><div><div><div><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>R. Walters</div><div><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com">ray@solarray.com</a></div><div>Solar Engineer</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span>
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<br><div><div>On Dec 14, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Dana wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-size: medium; "><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Interesting in that our AHJ are not up to speed on this. Sealed is sealed to them and now I know too.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Dana Orzel<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Great Solar Works, Inc<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">E -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:dana@solarwork.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">dana@solarwork.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">V - 970.626.5253<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">F - 970.626.4140<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">C - 970.209.4076<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">web -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.solarwork.com/" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.solarwork.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; ">Do not ever belive anything, but seriously trust through action.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: 'Century Gothic', sans-serif; "><o:p> </o:p></span></div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Exeltech<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, December 14, 2010 5:54 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] To insulate a battery bank DEPENDS on a lot of factors.<o:p></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0.5in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><table class="MsoNormalTable" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="624" style="width: 6.5in; margin-left: 0.5in; "><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="padding-top: 0in; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">If sealed batteries are inadvertently overcharged, H2 and O may be created at a rate beyond which the two gasses can be recombined within the cells. In this case, internal seals may open to prevent excessive pressure from accumulating and turning the battery into an explosion hazard. Venting of the enclosure is needed for the same reason. Though sealed batteries are less likely to require venting - it's a necessary safety precaution.<br><br>Dan<br><br><br>--- On<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Mon, 12/13/10, jay peltz<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i><<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jay@asis.com</a>></i></b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<o:p></o:p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>From: jay peltz <<a href="mailto:jay@asis.com" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">jay@asis.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] To insulate a battery bank DEPENDS on a lot of factors.<br>To: "RE-wrenches" <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>><br>Date: Monday, December 13, 2010, 6:30 PM<o:p></o:p></p><div id="yiv583987039"><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">Hi Dana,<o:p></o:p></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">The manufacturers that I've read, do say they should be in a vented enclosure.<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">But your point is taken,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">thanks,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">jay<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">On Dec 13, 2010, at 8:32 AM, Dana wrote:<o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br><br><o:p></o:p></div><div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Sealed batteries do not require a vent , therefore no air passage less influence of ambient exterior temps to the bank. Perhaps on a small bank this would have an influence.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">On a large bank in a low usage scenario, IE: second home with no one home, the system may be full by 10AM and the fan runs for most of the day inducing cool air.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Granted most systems have a present [physically] home owner. I have many systems that float for a good part of the winter, awaiting the arrival of either the owner for a week or spring.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Dana Orzel</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Great Solar Works, Inc</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">E -<span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://70/mc/compose?to=dana@solarwork.com" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">dana@solarwork.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">V - 970.626.5253</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">F - 970.626.4140</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">C - 970.209.4076</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">web -<span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.solarwork.com/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.solarwork.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"</span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; ">Do not ever belive anything, but seriously trust through action.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="border-right-style: none; border-bottom-style: none; border-left-style: none; border-width: initial; border-color: initial; border-top-style: solid; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding-top: 3pt; padding-right: 0in; padding-bottom: 0in; padding-left: 0in; "><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; ">From:</span></b><span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "> </span></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; "><a href="x-msg://70/mc/compose?to=re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org]<span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span></b>jay peltz<br><b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, December 12, 2010 4:49 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches<br><b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] To insulate a battery bank DEPENDS on a lot of factors.</span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">HI Dana,<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "> <o:p></o:p></div></div></div><div><div style="margin-left: 0.5in; "><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">I'm curious about why you differentiate sealed vs. flooded batteries?<o:p></o:p></div></div><div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 14pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; "> </span><o:p></o:p></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 13.5pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; ">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://70/mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="yiv583987039apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br><br>Check out participant bios:<br><a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 0.0001pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><o:p> </o:p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; "><br>-----Inline Attachment Follows-----<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-top: 0in; margin-right: 0in; margin-bottom: 12pt; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; ">_______________________________________________<br>List sponsored by Home Power magazine<br><br>List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="x-msg://70/mc/compose?to=RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>Options & settings:<br><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List-Archive:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br><br>List rules & etiquette:<br><a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; 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