<html><body><span style="font-family:Verdana; color:#000000; font-size:10pt;"><br>Boy, This reminds me of a problem I had a few years ago -- don't remember the particulars, except that it was embarrassingly simple -- like a missing connection or something. db<br><br>
Dan Brown<br>
President<br>
Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
(802)-483-2564<br>
<a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com" mce_href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>
NABCEP #092907-44<br><br>
<blockquote webmail="1" style="border-left: 2px solid blue; margin-left: 8px; padding-left: 8px; font-size: 10pt; color: black; font-family: verdana;">
<div >
-------- Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverters (not really a power factor<br>
issue)<br>
From: boB Gudgel <boB@midnitesolar.com><br>
Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 12:53 am<br>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
<br>
Darryl Thayer wrote:<br>
> The 120 leg to leg, that is strange. Is it possible the Inverter has an output not split phase? perhaps 2 phase or 4 phase? giving the phase to neutral a normal value and the phase to phase a weird value? I do not think thy would build it this way. <br>
><br>
> <br>
Matt said:<br>
"When I checked phase to phase I also only got 120"<br>
<br>
OK, Matt, that part passed right through me... Hmmmm.... (60 Hz <br>
Hmmmm... too)<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Matt Tritt <solarone@charter.net> wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
>> From: Matt Tritt <solarone@charter.net><br>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverters (not really a power factor issue)<br>
>> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
>> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:43 PM<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>> The next time I'm up there I'll take another tech<br>
>> with me, plenty of<br>
>> meters and go through every DC and AC connection (they all<br>
>> looked good<br>
>> first time around) to try and get to the bottom of the<br>
>> problem prior to<br>
>> taking a harder look at Magnum. I have to say, though, that<br>
>> I have<br>
>> heard a couple of comments that tend to suggest that the<br>
>> inverter might<br>
>> turn out to be one logical place to look. I like these<br>
>> inverters a lot,<br>
>> and I really hope that we find some other issue. <br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> To replay the symptoms, there is no audible or visual (as<br>
>> in motor<br>
>> starter noises or dimming light) indication that the pump<br>
>> is attempting<br>
>> to do anything other than sit there when inverter voltage<br>
>> is connected<br>
>> to it. When the genny power is applied, there is a<br>
>> discernable working<br>
>> under a load sound from the engine, and the pump works. I<br>
>> only had the<br>
>> homeowner's lousy dime store anaglog meter to work<br>
>> with, but the<br>
>> voltage from the inverter was right on 120 volts per leg.<br>
>> When I<br>
>> checked phase to phase I also only got 120 - that's<br>
>> kind of weird, but<br>
>> it might simply be the meter. All the household loads run<br>
>> flawlessly<br>
>> (but this is a pretty fundamental cabin, so the TV and DVD<br>
>> player are<br>
>> the most exotic things plugged in. The run to the pump is<br>
>> adequately<br>
>> sized - - - - - in other words, it all seems run of the<br>
>> mill, except<br>
>> that the pump only ran successfully one time and not on any<br>
>> further<br>
>> attempts. Golly..<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Matt<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> boB Gudgel wrote:<br>
>> Larry<br>
>> Crutcher, Starlight Solar wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Hey Matt, <br>
>><br>
>> I sure wish their techie's would get to the bottom of<br>
>> it. I am getting<br>
>> gun-shy about selling Magnum and they are about the best<br>
>> available for<br>
>> small 12 volt systems. I have spend hours trying to solve<br>
>> the problem.<br>
>> My customer is still not a happy camper.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Starlight Solar<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> (928) 941-1660<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Can you get someone to look at the voltage and/or current<br>
>> going into<br>
>> that pump ?? Scope ? Meter ? <br>
>> Even a<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> power factor meter would have both voltage and current<br>
>> measurements. <br>
>> Some even have a mediocre scope built in.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> A scope AND a meter is best of course.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Need stats. AC an DC side. AC voltage at<br>
>> the pump and at the<br>
>> inverter.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Must have more information. Yes, it<br>
>> ~could~ be a Magnum inverter<br>
>> issue, but need more information other than "it<br>
>> doesn't work"<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Does the voltage dip when the pump tries to start ? <br>
>> What is the<br>
>> maximum Ac and DC current ? Most basic info for<br>
>> troubleshooting.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> The inverter manufacturer can probably help somewhat if<br>
>> they have this<br>
>> info.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Just a suggestion here.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> boB<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> On Aug 1, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Matt Tritt wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> I took boB's advice and<br>
>> talked to Magnum<br>
>> about the problem. Their take on it? "Hmmm, beats<br>
>> me!" I might be<br>
>> paraphrasing, but that's the drift. All in all, I'd<br>
>> say that the<br>
>> suggestions from the group are at least as good as the<br>
>> one's from the<br>
>> manufacturer.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Matt T<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Don't forget, this is a<br>
>> Magnum inverter<br>
>> and Magnum has issues. I have two customers with<br>
>> Magnum problems. One<br>
>> is a washer that will work perfectly on a cheap<br>
>> import inverter; the<br>
>> other has a Vizio TV that works fine on shore power<br>
>> and generator.<br>
>> Soooo...maybe there are pumps and other items that<br>
>> are anti-Magnum.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Starlight Solar<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> (928) 941-1660<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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