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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I’ve found that well pumps have their
own set of strange rules. I’m talking twilight zone stuff. For example
we wrenches talk about 2 wire and 3 wire pumps but around here the suppliers
and well service people talk about 240 (two wire, I suppose) and 230 (3 wire) pumps.
Both of them a 240 single phase in my book. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>We’ve had some very odd experiences
and are currently in the middle of another one. We have a pump that won’t
drop the start windings and overloads the pumps controller (not the inverter or
the breaker). Does it both on the dual 4kW inverter and the 12kW generator so it’s
not a power thing. This happened a few years ago at another customer with a
different pump brand and inverter. It took out 2 sets of Outback Boards and
caused us no end of aggravation. Might pump for a few seconds then overload
the inverter or might work fine for weeks then trip the control box. Swapped
out the pump and down pipe wire and things were fine but no one, not even the well
pump experts could help us figure it out. Normally they work great but when
they don’t they can drive you crazy.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Travis Creswell<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Ozark Energy Services<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:windowtext;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;
color:windowtext'> re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org] <b><span style='font-weight:
bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Matt Tritt<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, August 03, 2009
12:44 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> RE-wrenches<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum
inverters (not really a power factor issue)</span></font><font color=black><span
style='color:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 color=black face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm hoping that it WILL be embarrassingly simple! I'm
glad this wasn't something I installed since you all know what it's like to
find errors is someone else's work. ;-) <br>
<br>
Matt<br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:dan@foxfire-energy.com">dan@foxfire-energy.com</a> wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=black face=Verdana><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><br>
Boy, This reminds me of a problem I had a few years ago -- don't remember the
particulars, except that it was embarrassingly simple -- like a missing
connection or something. db<br>
<br>
Dan Brown<br>
President<br>
Foxfire Energy Corp.<br>
Renewable Energy Systems<br>
(802)-483-2564<br>
<a href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com" mce_href="http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com">www.Foxfire-Energy.com</a><br>
NABCEP #092907-44<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
face=Verdana><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>--------
Original Message --------<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverters (not really a power factor<br>
issue)<br>
From: boB Gudgel <a href="mailto:boB@midnitesolar.com"><boB@midnitesolar.com></a><br>
Date: Sun, August 02, 2009 12:53 am<br>
To: RE-wrenches <a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
<br>
Darryl Thayer wrote:<br>
> The 120 leg to leg, that is strange. Is it possible the Inverter has an
output not split phase? perhaps 2 phase or 4 phase? giving the phase to neutral
a normal value and the phase to phase a weird value? I do not think thy would
build it this way. <br>
><br>
> <br>
Matt said:<br>
"When I checked phase to phase I also only got 120"<br>
<br>
OK, Matt, that part passed right through me... Hmmmm.... (60 Hz <br>
Hmmmm... too)<br>
<br>
boB<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> --- On Sat, 8/1/09, Matt Tritt <a href="mailto:solarone@charter.net"><solarone@charter.net></a>
wrote:<br>
><br>
> <br>
>> From: Matt Tritt <a href="mailto:solarone@charter.net"><solarone@charter.net></a><br>
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum inverters (not really a power factor
issue)<br>
>> To: "RE-wrenches" <a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a><br>
>> Date: Saturday, August 1, 2009, 10:43 PM<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>> The next time I'm up there I'll take another tech<br>
>> with me, plenty of<br>
>> meters and go through every DC and AC connection (they all<br>
>> looked good<br>
>> first time around) to try and get to the bottom of the<br>
>> problem prior to<br>
>> taking a harder look at Magnum. I have to say, though, that<br>
>> I have<br>
>> heard a couple of comments that tend to suggest that the<br>
>> inverter might<br>
>> turn out to be one logical place to look. I like these<br>
>> inverters a lot,<br>
>> and I really hope that we find some other issue. <br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> To replay the symptoms, there is no audible or visual (as<br>
>> in motor<br>
>> starter noises or dimming light) indication that the pump<br>
>> is attempting<br>
>> to do anything other than sit there when inverter voltage<br>
>> is connected<br>
>> to it. When the genny power is applied, there is a<br>
>> discernable working<br>
>> under a load sound from the engine, and the pump works. I<br>
>> only had the<br>
>> homeowner's lousy dime store anaglog meter to work<br>
>> with, but the<br>
>> voltage from the inverter was right on 120 volts per leg.<br>
>> When I<br>
>> checked phase to phase I also only got 120 - that's<br>
>> kind of weird, but<br>
>> it might simply be the meter. All the household loads run<br>
>> flawlessly<br>
>> (but this is a pretty fundamental cabin, so the TV and DVD<br>
>> player are<br>
>> the most exotic things plugged in. The run to the pump is<br>
>> adequately<br>
>> sized - - - - - in other words, it all seems run of the<br>
>> mill, except<br>
>> that the pump only ran successfully one time and not on any<br>
>> further<br>
>> attempts. Golly..<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Matt<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> boB Gudgel wrote:<br>
>> Larry<br>
>> Crutcher, Starlight Solar wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Hey Matt, <br>
>><br>
>> I sure wish their techie's would get to the bottom of<br>
>> it. I am getting<br>
>> gun-shy about selling Magnum and they are about the best<br>
>> available for<br>
>> small 12 volt systems. I have spend hours trying to solve<br>
>> the problem.<br>
>> My customer is still not a happy camper.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Starlight Solar<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> (928) 941-1660<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Can you get someone to look at the voltage and/or current<br>
>> going into<br>
>> that pump ?? Scope ? Meter ? <br>
>> Even a<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> power factor meter would have both voltage and current<br>
>> measurements. <br>
>> Some even have a mediocre scope built in.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> A scope AND a meter is best of course.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Need stats. AC an DC side. AC voltage at<br>
>> the pump and at the<br>
>> inverter.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Must have more information. Yes, it<br>
>> ~could~ be a Magnum inverter<br>
>> issue, but need more information other than "it<br>
>> doesn't work"<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Does the voltage dip when the pump tries to start ? <br>
>> What is the<br>
>> maximum Ac and DC current ? Most basic info for<br>
>> troubleshooting.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> The inverter manufacturer can probably help somewhat if<br>
>> they have this<br>
>> info.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Just a suggestion here.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> boB<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> On Aug 1, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Matt Tritt wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> I took boB's advice and<br>
>> talked to Magnum<br>
>> about the problem. Their take on it? "Hmmm, beats<br>
>> me!" I might be<br>
>> paraphrasing, but that's the drift. All in all, I'd<br>
>> say that the<br>
>> suggestions from the group are at least as good as the<br>
>> one's from the<br>
>> manufacturer.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Matt T<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Don't forget, this is a<br>
>> Magnum inverter<br>
>> and Magnum has issues. I have two customers with<br>
>> Magnum problems. One<br>
>> is a washer that will work perfectly on a cheap<br>
>> import inverter; the<br>
>> other has a Vizio TV that works fine on shore power<br>
>> and generator.<br>
>> Soooo...maybe there are pumps and other items that<br>
>> are anti-Magnum.<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Larry Crutcher<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Starlight Solar<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> (928) 941-1660<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation<br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
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size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>List-Archive: <a
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size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>List rules & etiquette:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>Check out participant bios:<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt'>No virus found in this incoming message.<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre><pre><font
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