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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri>Like I said in my original message - every
manufacturer is different when it comes to VRLA batteries.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri>The problems we have seen with gel batteries is
not at room temperature, but at the elevated temperatures like you often see in
hot climates, like in Arizona. However, I cannot find any actual specifications
on temp vs charging rate on the Deka/MK batteries.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>..................................................................................................<BR>Northern
Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979<BR>Solar Discussion
Forum: <A
href="http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/">http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/</A><BR>..................................................................................................</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=wratterman@sunenergypower.com
href="mailto:wratterman@sunenergypower.com">Walt Ratterman</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=larry@starlightsolar.com
href="mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com">'Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar'</A> ;
<A title=re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">'RE-wrenches'</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 30, 2009 3:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Boost
Controller in Senegal</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hello
Larry and others.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
slow charge rate for the Gels you mention confuses me further. I had
just finished researching this last week when I was in Sierra Leone, where we
were setting up the DEKA 225AH Gel batteries on an Outback system, and
checking the charge rate.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
downloaded a charging instruction document from DEKA and was quite
surprised.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">On
the bulk charge rate, Rolls recommended 15% of C6.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">HUP
recommends a minimum of 10% to a maximum of 20% of C6.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">But.DEKA
recommended, for their GELS, Maintain <= 30A per 100AH of C20
Rating. Thats twice as fast as the Rolls!!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Maybe
I am reading this incorrectly.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">And,
in the DEKAs advantages / disadvantages sheet, they list quicker charging as
one of the GELs advantages.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
can forward any of you this DEKA charging sheet if you want, but I dont think
it is OK through the list serve.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Walt<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> Larry Crutcher,
Starlight Solar [mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com] <BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday,
June 30, 2009 1:37 PM<BR><B>To:</B> wratterman@sunenergypower.com;
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Boost Controller in
Senegal<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hi Walt,<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>You are right! Gel batteries will give many more cycles
than AGM's. And they cost more so you you are not getting an equivalent value
by them suppling AGM's. <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>A very big downside to Gel is if you accidently
over-voltage the battery, you can permanently ruin it. I have seen many
battery banks damaged from accidental high voltage charging. For that reason,
I mostly sell AGM (in my market). They also charge slower because of the
reduced charge voltage required. Also they are not quite as efficient as AGM
so it takes more power/time to fully recharge. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On the plus side, an AGM battery can be equalized if needed
but never a Gel battery. Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Kindest
Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Larry
Crutcher<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Starlight
Solar<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">(928)
941-1660<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Renewable
Energy Products, Service and Installation<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Mailing
Address (NO SHIPPING):<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">11881
S Fortuna Rd.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">#210<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Yuma,
AZ 85367<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Shipping
and retail store (NO MAIL):<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">2998
Shari Ave <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 9pt">Yuma,
AZ 85365<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Lucida Sans','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Jun 30, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Walt Ratterman
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Hello,</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Why
do you say that AGM batteries are a better choice?</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I
have been reading about the differences, and all I see (comparing DEKA Gel
versus DEKA AGM is that the cycle life of the AGM (at 50% DOD) is 500 cycles
versus 1000 cycles for the Gel.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The
AGM seems to have better resistance to freezing, but of course that is not a
concern here.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">What
are the benefits of AGM that I am missing here? (This could be
important, because I was going to jump all over the fabricator for shipping
AGM when the literature quotes GEL, and I was thinking GEL would have been a
better choice. Maybe they were trying to right think, but I would need
to be educated more here</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Thanks!!</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Walt</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">Wind-sun.com
[<A href="mailto:windsun@wind-sun.com">mailto:windsun@wind-sun.com</A>]<SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><BR><B>Sent:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Tuesday, June 30, 2009 7:30
AM<BR><B>To:</B><SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="mailto:wratterman@sunenergypower.com">wratterman@sunenergypower.com</A>;
RE-wrenches<BR><B>Subject:</B><SPAN
class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN>Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Boost
Controller in Senegal</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
AGM batteries are probably a better choice than gelled, but the fact that some
are down to 5 volts is the real problem.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">A
typical AGM will lose around 1-2% charge per month at 25 degrees C. If they
are at 5 volts, that indicates that they either sat around for over a year
unused and uncharged, and possibly in a very high temperature environment. The
2nd possibility is that there is some kind of constant load on them, even when
the units are not turned on - which would be poor design.</SPAN><SPAN
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The
Midnite controller is not available yet, so your only real choices with the
panels you have are the Outback FM60 or the Xantrex XW-SCC - both of them are
in the $600 range.</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style="COLOR: black">..................................................................................................<BR>Northern
Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979<BR>Solar
Discussion Forum:<SPAN class=apple-converted-space> </SPAN><A
href="http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/">http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/</A><BR>..................................................................................................</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri','sans-serif'; COLOR: black; FONT-SIZE: 11pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
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