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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hello Larry and others….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The slow charge rate for the Gel’s you mention confuses me
further. I had just finished researching this last week when I was in Sierra
Leone, where we were setting up the DEKA 225AH Gel batteries on an Outback
system, and checking the charge rate.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I downloaded a charging instruction document from DEKA and was
quite surprised.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>On the bulk charge rate, Rolls recommended 15% of C6.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>HUP recommends a minimum of 10% to a maximum of 20% of C6.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>But….DEKA recommended, for their GELS, “Maintain <= 30A per
100AH of C20 Rating. That’s twice as fast as the Rolls!!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Maybe I am reading this incorrectly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>And, in the DEKA’s advantages / disadvantages sheet, they list
quicker charging as one of the GEL’s advantages.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I can forward any of you this DEKA charging sheet if you want,
but I don’t think it is OK through the list serve.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Walt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Larry Crutcher,
Starlight Solar [mailto:larry@starlightsolar.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:37 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> wratterman@sunenergypower.com; RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar Boost Controller in Senegal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>Hi Walt,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>You are right! Gel batteries will give many more cycles than
AGM's. And they cost more so you you are not getting an equivalent value by
them suppling AGM's. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>A very big downside to Gel is if you accidently over-voltage
the battery, you can permanently ruin it. I have seen many battery banks
damaged from accidental high voltage charging. For that reason, I mostly sell
AGM (in my market). They also charge slower because of the reduced charge
voltage required. Also they are not quite as efficient as AGM so it takes more
power/time to fully recharge. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On the plus side, an AGM battery can be equalized if needed
but never a Gel battery. Hope this helps.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Kindest Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Larry Crutcher<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Starlight Solar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>(928) 941-1660<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Renewable Energy Products, Service and Installation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Mailing Address (NO SHIPPING):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>11881 S Fortuna Rd.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>#210<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Yuma, AZ 85367<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Shipping and retail store (NO MAIL):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>2998 Shari Ave <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Yuma, AZ 85365<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Sans","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal>On Jun 30, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Walt Ratterman wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hello,</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Why do you say that AGM batteries are a better choice?</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have been reading about the differences, and all I see
(comparing DEKA Gel versus DEKA AGM is that the cycle life of the AGM (at 50%
DOD) is 500 cycles versus 1000 cycles for the Gel.</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>The AGM seems to have better resistance to freezing, but of
course that is not a concern here.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>What are the benefits of AGM that I am missing here? (This
could be important, because I was going to jump all over the fabricator for
shipping AGM when the literature quotes GEL, and I was thinking GEL would have
been a better choice. Maybe they were trying to right think, but I would
need to be educated more here…</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks!!</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Walt</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;
border-width:initial;border-color:initial'>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:black'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'> </span></span><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black'>Wind-sun.com
[<a href="mailto:windsun@wind-sun.com">mailto:windsun@wind-sun.com</a>]<span
class=apple-converted-space> </span><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Tuesday, June 30,
2009 7:30 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="mailto:wratterman@sunenergypower.com">wratterman@sunenergypower.com</a>;
RE-wrenches<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches]
Solar Boost Controller in Senegal</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>The AGM batteries are probably a better choice than gelled, but
the fact that some are down to 5 volts is the real problem.</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>A typical AGM will lose around 1-2% charge per month at 25 degrees
C. If they are at 5 volts, that indicates that they either sat around for over
a year unused and uncharged, and possibly in a very high temperature
environment. The 2nd possibility is that there is some kind of constant load on
them, even when the units are not turned on - which would be poor design.</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:black'>The Midnite controller is not available yet, so your only real
choices with the panels you have are the Outback FM60 or the Xantrex XW-SCC -
both of them are in the $600 range.</span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> </span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>..................................................................................................<br>
Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979<br>
Solar Discussion Forum:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><a
href="http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/">http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/</a><br>
..................................................................................................</span><span
style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br>
__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 4193 (20090626) __________<br>
<br>
The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.eset.com">http://www.eset.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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