This information came from one of my suppliers who does DC power systems and has to use it exclusively in their systems. They do not use welding cable anymore because it does not meet code for the DC systems that they build. I have never used it, I have "played" with while we were talking about it and it was almost as flexible as welding cable, that suprised me, I hadn't expected that.

They are located around 100 miles from me, one way, next time I get down there I will get a piece and send it to you to check out. It is cool stuff, to bad it's 3+ times the cost of welding cable....

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy [mailto:solar@eagle-access.net]
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 10:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches@topica.com
Subject: Re: welding cable [RE-wrenches]

Hi Bob,

    The acceptable cables for battery jumpers that I am familiar with do not appear to have individually coated strands. For instance, the Hypalon Diesel Locomotive Cable looks like pure copper to me. The cable supplied by Trace doesn't seem to have any coating either. Is the coating on your cable easily visible? I examined the Hypalon cable through a hand lens, and was unable to see any evidence of a coating.

    I am not familiar with the coated $6.50/ foot cable that you had mentioned earlier.  Your input indicates that there are listed, coated battery cables, but it doesn't appear that coating on the individual strands is a required criteria. What is the type or designation of the cable with the coated strands?

    As to what the actual criteria is, I am a bit hazy. The NEC says:

" 690-74. Battery Interconnections
Flexible cables, as identified in Article 400, in sizes No. 2/0 and larger shall be permitted within the battery enclosure from battery terminals to nearby junction box where they shall be connected to an approved wiring method. Flexible battery cables shall also be permitted between batteries and cells within the battery enclosure. Such cables shall be listed for hard service use and identified as moisture resistant."

    I have never been able to determine that the cables that have been recommended to us, and have been acceptable to the inspectors, are in fact listed in Article 400. It doesn't appear to me that they are. It seems to be an issue that could stand clarification.

    Thanks for your help in sorting out this issue.

                                                           Drake

----- Original Message -----

From: Bob Ellison

To: RE-wrenches@topica.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 7:30 AM

Subject: welding cable [RE-wrenches]

The only difference that stands out to me besides the covering is that the legal UL listed battery cables have the individual wires plated. There are not as many strands as in the welding cable. Could it be because copper corrodes as easily as it does? That would explain the plating, it would be a pain in the butt to plate the individual strands in a welding cable!

Thanks,

Bob Ellison

RE. Ellison

Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies

34642 Countryman Road

Theresa, New York. USA.

                                        13691-2076

-----Original Message-----
From: Drake Chamberlin - Electrical Energy [mailto:solar@eagle-access.net]
Sent: Monday, February 28, 2000 10:37 PM
To: RE-wrenches@topica.com
Subject: Thanks for the data [RE-wrenches]

Hello Wrenches,

    Thanks for the information on the use of welding cable for connections to batteries. The ability to amass data so rapidly clearly demonstrates the power of the Wrench network.

    I agree with Bob-O and Bob Ellison that the acid test won't necessarily show if welding cable is effective. At this point we can already say that it is effective as battery cable, as evidenced by the thousands of installations that have functioned without a hitch, with no reports of cable failure.

    The logic of the experiment is to expose cable insulation to a chemical environment far more acidic than it would experience in operation. If a battery box were filled with battery acid, I imagine that battery jumper failure would be the least of one's worries. But exposure to battery acid is the one difference, that I can think of, that would have an effect on cables in the vicinity of battery banks. Since the majority of listed cables (and unlisted) are of pure copper, the insulation would be the only variable.

    Bob-O's idea of doing an electrical test on the insulation after exposure to the acid is an excellent one.   Would a Megar be the right tool for the job?   It would certainly be overkill when trying to determine if the cable is adequate for a low voltage system.

    I don't know what will happen to the insulation either, but I'd be surprised it the acid had much effect on any of the cable. Battery acid comes in a plastic bag inside of a cardboard box. But it will be interesting to see if any cables are affected and to what degree.

    Even if the insulation were degraded by the acid, that might not matter much. Lineage 2000 batteries that were purchased for one installation came with bare copper bus bars to connect the batteries.  They worked fine.

    The idea of the experiment is to see if there is any rational whatever for the prohibition of welding cable use, or the use of any other readily available cable. If we can be certain that we have thought of and tested all the parameters, we can proceed to make proposals for changes in the code.

    If anyone has cable they think should be tested, contact us to see if we already have a specimen. If not, send it in and we will put it to the test.

    Thanks again for the help.

Drake Chamberlin

Don Wallingford