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<p>All of these issues and more, are why I've tried to avoid AGS,
and go with an educated customer as the gen start system. Its
been a losing battle lately: off grid people these days expect
almost no sacrifices in loads, AGS, zero maintenance, and the
system to cost under $15k, because they bought it all online from
EG4.....and it installed itself! The internet is amazing these
days.</p>
<p>Planning? Load profiles? Tilt adjustable racking for winter?
More than 24 hours of battery storage? PV charging when the AIO
inverter shuts off?</p>
<p>Ray Walters<br>
remote solar</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/11/2026 2:33 PM, Chris Sparadeo
via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAdbmLa1Gd6A7VN2=i5SLM+iVuknHym-YRYAEcCa+U+HirRaVA@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Another nice-to-have feature would be Gen stop
based on PV production. Customers dislike hearing their
generator run to finish a charge cycle in the am when the sun is
out. </div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 11, 2026 at
1:01 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div dir="ltr">My thoughts exactly </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Apr 11, 2026, at 9:35 AM,
Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div dir="auto">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">You're
making the case for multiple AGS start
setpoints. There should be a quiet time override
SOC for AGS.</div>
<br clear="all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design
Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font color="#333333"
face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div>
<div><font color="#333333"
face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"> </font></div>
<div><font color="#333333"
face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Apr 11,
2026 at 9:10 AM Zeke Yewdall via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>A recent thread included Quiet Time in the
list of non-included features with newer
inverters. And I too have had customers
asking for this. But, in many cases, I find
that quiet time is not actually a useable
feature for many current off grid houses with
lithium batteries, and this is why.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>With lead acid battery banks, we typically
designed for the generator to start around 50%
SOC. But, occasionally we could discharge
down to 20% SOC without damaging the batteries
long term. And, typical off grid houses were
usually designed with fewer nighttime loads,
compared to nowadays. So, if the battery
bank hit 50% SOC at 9pm, but quiet times
extended till 8am, we still usually had plenty
of reserve left to wait till 8am before
starting the generator without any additional
failures or battery damage.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But a lot of current off grid systems with
lithium batteries are sizing for a lower days
of autonomy (because of the higher cost of
lithium batteries, though that's changing
now), and deeper regular depth of discharges.
Generator start is often set at 20 or 30% SOC
instead of 50%. If we are planning for
regularly discharging below 50% SOC overnight,
which I do commonly see, there's not nearly so
much reserve capacity to wait for a generator
start. If we hit 20% SOC at 9pm, with a
smaller battery bank relative to the load, and
a higher nighttime load from more things
remaining on all night that we never used to
have (routers, internet, heating system
controls/pumps/etc), then the chances of us
making it till 8am to wait for the generator
start is a lot lower -- we risk a BMS shutdown
of the battery sometimes betwen 0% and 10%,
before 8am, which depending on the particular
equipment can be a difficult situation to
recover from. Many AIO's will only black
start batteries from solar, not generator, and
most (though not all) older charge controllers
and inverters will not black start batteries
from either solar or generator.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So, because we are using deeper discharges,
using more energy overnight, and waiting
longer before a SOC based generator start, we
often don't have the option of waiting 4 or 8
hours or such to start the generator. It
needs to start very soon after the call for
it, or we run into further problems.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>What would be ideal is a system that looks
at SOC before quite times would start, and if
it's not sufficient to make it through a
typical night because it's been a cloudy day,
starts and runs the generator a bit before
quite times start, rather than hoping to make
it to morning before running it. An
experienced off grid owner can do this
automatically, topping the batteries off
before going into the night if they are too
low. But unexperienced owners or ones who
just don't watch their battery SOC all the
time, will not. Perhaps we'll come up with AI
driving controls that watch the typical batery
use patterns and look at the weather forecast,
and can do this, just like the experienced off
grid operator does.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Zeke </div>
<div><br clear="all">
</div>
<br>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Zeke Yewdall
<div>PV Engineer</div>
<div>NABCEP #031508-89</div>
<div><a
href="mailto:zeke@darkforestsolar.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">zeke@darkforestsolar.com</a></div>
<div>303-523-3592</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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