<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div dir="ltr"></div><div dir="ltr">A few questions</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">What’s the charge capacity? Like how big is the generator and solar </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">How many amp hrs is the battery?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">How are they determining they are not getting full?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">What controller?</div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Is there a trimetric to keep tabs. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Given what you’ve said, I lean towards constant undercharging. Are they salvageable? Possibly </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">I’d do a eq as high as possible from the oem. Take SG readings. Let them cool a few days and do it again. </div><div dir="ltr">If you are seeing an increase in SG and leveling out of the differences then keep going. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Depending on the size of the generator and loads and size of the bank it could take a lot of hours of charging. So people run out of gasoline or hate hearing the generator or figure 2 hours is enough. </div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr"><br><blockquote type="cite">On Dec 12, 2025, at 11:34 AM, Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:<br><br></blockquote></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I second the chronic undercharging suggestion. We have a client with a 64 kWh FLA battery bank that only has 2.4 kW of PV. When they bought these batteries two years ago, they thought they could solve all of their energy woes by just buying a bigger battery. It is astonishing how many people don't understand that batteries themselves do not generate electricity - they just store it. They must think it's magic!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Anyway, with that kind of PV to storage ratio, they were probably barely getting past the internal resistance. The batteries are completely toast now, and the client is moving to LFP (with more solar per my demand).</div><br clear="all"></div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><br>Jason Szumlanski<div><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design Group</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida State Certified Solar Contractor CVC56956</span></div><div><font color="#333333" face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida Certified Electrical Contractor EC13013208</font></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 12, 2025 at 1:32 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">Chronic undercharging, electrolyte dilution, lack of informed equalization, and adding water without knowledge of the how’s, whys, and when’s will kill those batteries in no time. I’ve pulled out to many of those heavy bastards to count, most of them at a fresh young age because the installer didn’t educate the clients properly. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Fri, Dec 12, 2025 at 10:21 AM David Coale via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Wrenchers,<br>
<br>
I have a client with an old off-grid Trace system and he is having trouble with the batteries. He has HUP Solar One FLA batteries that are about 4 years old, so they should be in good shape. The last set lasted almost 20 years with a fair amount of abuse.<br>
<br>
Here is he history and what I think is going on. 7/21 they got new batteries after about 19 years of use.<br>
<br>
7/22 I get a call saying the batteries are not charging up all the way. When I check out the system, the batteries needed cleaning, and I found three low cells, and the charger settings were back to default, not set high enough to charge the batteries all the way (it’s always multiple problems). The client (now a new renter, new to the system) said he was filing the batteries once a month and experienced some overflowing when the batteries were charged up.<br>
<br>
I cleaned things up, reset the charging parameters and set up an equalizing charge to even out the cells. Hopefully this will fix things.<br>
<br>
11/25. The client calls and said the batteries don’t charge up all the way and he is running the generator a lot and worried about getting though the wintertime.<br>
When I check things out, there are three bad cells and there is soda on the batteries. It is hard to get a good voltage readings because of the soda. Most of the cells are reading 2.1 volts under about a 40 amp load.<br>
<br>
Yesterday I check things out, and all the cells are reading between 1.93 to 1.98 under a 40 amp load in the morning, and I don’t find any bad cells. The charging voltage is never going over about 52 volts so the system is never getting fully charged up. The charge setting look OK, so not sure what is going on. This is acting like an old battery pack but these batteries are relatively new.<br>
<br>
My guess at this point is that maybe the batteries lost acid with the overflowing event and lost capacity. Maybe adding acid back in would bring them back up to working order. The SG measured at 1.150 or less.<br>
<br>
At this point the client (renter) has had enough of these battery problems and is wondering every morning if the batteries will last long enough to until the sun comes up. The renter is pushing for a replacement LFP battery, but there should be lots of life left in this battery pack.<br>
<br>
Let me know what you all think.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
<br>
David<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr">
<p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica;min-height:22px"><span></span></p>
<p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica">Michael Morningstar </p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica"><br></p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica">Morningstar Electric Inc</p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica">PO Box 1494</p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica">Mount Shasta, CA 96067</p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica">530-921-0560</p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica">CSLB 1116835</p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica"><a href="mailto:mjmorningstar@gmail.com" target="_blank">mjmorningstar@gmail.com</a></p><p style="margin:0px;font:18px Helvetica"><br></p></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br>
<br>
Pay optional member dues here: <a href="http://re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List Address: <a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
Change listserver email address & settings:<br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:<br>
<a href="https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
List rules & etiquette:<br>
<a href="http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</a><br>
<br>
Check out or update participant bios:<br>
<a href="http://www.members.re-wrenches.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>
<span>_______________________________________________</span><br><span>List sponsored by Redwood Alliance</span><br><span></span><br><span>Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>Change listserver email address & settings:</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:</span><br><span>https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/</span><br><span>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br><span>List rules & etiquette:</span><br><span>http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm</span><br><span></span><br><span>Check out or update participant bios:</span><br><span>http://www.members.re-wrenches.org</span><br><span></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>