<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">There are different ferrule crimpers on the market. Square, half moon and round, square crimpers sometimes don't fit the lug as well as the 1/2 moon design which what Schnieder used for their OEM PDBs work best. I also use No-Ox-ID “A special” wire grease, to tame the fine strands w/ these cables. One thing that has yet to be mentioned here is; its important to look at the OD size of the insulation on your wires as the ferrules are also designed for the insulation of said wire to be inside, and if you don’t look & order the right internal end (insulation end) of ferrule size you will have a bunch of ferrels that u never use. <div class="">I use Cobra X flex and the X Flex 150 wire and have found it to be great to work w/ and it offers larger ampacity ratings. XFlex150 #6AWH is ~150A</div><div class="">When I’m making battery cables I only use the lugs available from my Cobra dealer. I assume that UL tests/ listings are given when using the lugs designed w/ the Manu’s crimper. </div><div class="">Battery cable; I have found that making 2 cuts on the insulation the first is around 1/2 “wide, and removed, the second one which stays on the cable is 1/8th wide is then slid up to the end of the cable and when its inserted in the lug one, it slips down then cut off allowing you to insert the rest of the stripped wire. <br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Sep 4, 2025, at 1:23 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" class="">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Times-Roman; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">James:</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Sorry I forgot to include the fine option you introduced. Thank you for the reminder.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">William</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Miller Solar</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">805-438-5600</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="color: blue;" class="">www.millersolar.com</span></a></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">CA Lic. 773985</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>James Jarvis [mailto:<a href="mailto:jj@aprsworld.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">jj@aprsworld.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, September 3, 2025 4:33 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:william@millersolar.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">william@millersolar.com</a>; RE-wrenches<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">William,</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">None of the crimpers you sent photos of are for ferrules. Those are all lug crimpers. Some are barely that. Nobody should be seriously considering anything you hit with a hammer to be a proper tool for installing any type of connector.</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Ferrule crimpers produce a square crimp and do what they are supposed to.</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Last Wednesday I sent you a note with this link:</div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="https://www.ferrulesdirect.com/collections/hand-crimping-tools/products/vag240" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ferrulesdirect.com/collections/hand-crimping-tools/products/vag240</a></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It makes a square shape and won't have weird edges and the artifacts you mention you get when you smoosh a ferrule with a non-ferrule crimper.</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Ferrules are highly useful and reliable when installed correctly. You just need the right tool.</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The other thing I mentioned last week were pin adapters. They are crimp on fittings that are rated for fine stranded wire and they convert it to course stranded or solid shape. Here was the example I sent:</div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="https://www.ilsco.com/Ilsco/ccrz__ProductDetails?sku=F2C-1%2F0-1%2F0-ILSM-ILS&cclcl=en_US" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://www.ilsco.com/Ilsco/ccrz__ProductDetails?sku=F2C-1%2F0-1%2F0-ILSM-ILS&cclcl=en_US</a></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Best regards,</div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">-James Jefferson Jarvis<br class="">APRS World, LLC<br class="">+1-507-454-2727</div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a href="http://www.aprsworld.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://www.aprsworld.com/</a></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Wed, Sep 3, 2025 at 6:10 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <<a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>> wrote:</div></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Friends:</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">My understanding is if the lug has a set-screw that contacts the strands, fine strands can wind around the set screw, get into the threads and not tighten adequately. If you are crimping fine strands inside of some type of barrel your connection should be OK. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I had been using Outback until they imploded and all of the battery connections were via studs or bolts that required crimped-on rings. Now I am back to set screw lugs and fine stranding became an issue again.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I did try another experiment: I took a 4/0 ferrule that would not fit into the Envy lugs and snipped a section out of it. I curled it into a slightly smaller diameter and it fit into the lug. I suppose one could cut the ferrule in half longitudinally and insert a portion of the ferrule between the set screw and the strands.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I am pleased with the copper sheeting wrapped around the fine strands. That will be my SOP.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">William</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Miller Solar</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">805-438-5600</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><a href="http://www.millersolar.com/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">www.millersolar.com</a></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">CA Lic. 773985</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></p><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>RE-wrenches [mailto:<a href="mailto:re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">re-wrenches-bounces@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Ray Walters via RE-wrenches<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, September 3, 2025 1:40 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Ray Walters<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [RE-wrenches] Ferrules for large fine-stranded wire.</span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I've got to ask: Are none of the lugs on these Chinese inverters approved for fine strand cable? I just have not had a problem with that, but I've mostly used Magnum, Midnite, and Outback equipment over the years. What were the lugs on the old Trace DC 250 boxes? Were they fine strand rated? They sure were tough to get 4/0 into, as William mentioned. </p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Ray <br class="">Remote Solar</p><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On 9/3/2025 12:57 PM, Kent via RE-wrenches wrote:</div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">William,</p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">If the only reason the ferrule wouldn't fit after using the hex crimper was the ridge left where the dies meet, you could rotate the cable 120 degrees and crimp the ferrule again.</p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I doubt that the indenter crimper will do a decent job with large ferrules.</p><p style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I do like your thin piece of copper solution. Not UL approved but I dare say wrench approved.</p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Kent Osterberg<br class="">Blue Mountain Solar</div><div style="margin-right: 0in; margin-left: 0in; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> <br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On 9/2/2025 8:55 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:</div></div><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Friends:</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">Thank you for all of your input on this question. I feel it only right I report back how this turned out</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">I tried a crimper like this:</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">It left a jagged ridge on both sides of the ferrule where the dies met.</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">The crimper below was suggested but I have not tried it:</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class="">This was suggested but I have not tried it either:</span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></p></blockquote></blockquote></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;">_______________________________________________<br class="">List sponsored by Redwood Alliance<br class=""><br class="">Pay optional member dues here:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://re-wrenches.org/" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">List Address:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">Change listserver email address & settings:<br class=""><a href="http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org</a><br class=""><br class="">There are two list archives for searching. 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<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Blair “TUMP” May</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">Solarwinds Northernlights east</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">"We must all learn to live together as brothers,</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""> or we all will perish as fools."</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">MLK</div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><br class=""></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Times; font-size: 18px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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