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<p>Hi Maverick;</p>
<p>The system used a Victron 1200 VA Phoenix Inverter, open loop
with voltage set points. All of this fairly new to me, using blue
tooth to program the inverter, having to have a hot spot to
provide internet. I even recently had to buy a budget PC laptop,
since I had Macs, which are not compatible with any of this
Chinese equipment. Including the DC power supply to dark start
these things, I've got a $1000 in special tools to service LiPO4.
</p>
<p>After decades of great service from Trace, Outback, Magnum, and
Midnite, I can't wait to retire with all these new head aches
related to firmware mismatch, etc. I assume an AI robot will be
replacing me in a couple of years.</p>
<p>Ray</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/3/2025 3:12 PM, Maverick Brown via
RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:6F99D093-0AE2-461A-81F0-365DAC7847F7@mavericksolar.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
This brings me back to a question I was trying to get data on…
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Not just specific to HomeGrid, but what Inverter was being
used in this case? Was it open loop or closed loop? If open
loop, was it inverter driven % based or inverter driven Voltage
based?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Recently, I had a long intermittent technical issue with a
pair of Sol-Ark inverters that was using open loop but
percentage based and it kept crashing out because the Simpliphi
Battery BMS was at zero SOC when the inverter thought there was
something left.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I added a Victron SmartShunt to monitor and found that
Inverter Percentage was not charging to the proper voltage (high
enough to fill all the batteries). I switched to Voltage control
and now all is well. Even the chart data on the inverter would
show low voltage situations and would explain the situation. I
just hadn’t even looked at the data deeply enough.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I wonder if Percent Closed Loop control is better than
Percent Open Loop control or are we leaving energy on the table?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Let me know what you think?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Maverick</div>
<div><br id="lineBreakAtBeginningOfMessage">
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style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;">
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Maverick
Brown<br>
Off-Grid Solar Commander since 2006<br>
<b>Maverick Solar Enterprises, Inc.</b></div>
<div
style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><b> •
Solar Commander Remote Power</b></div>
<div
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SunFlow Systems Cathodic Protection <br>
</b><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:maverick@mavericksolar.com">maverick@mavericksolar.com</a><br>
512-460-9825<br>
</div>
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<div><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>On Sep 3, 2025, at 3:55 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"><re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org></a> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
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content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
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<p>I have one Home Grid system out here; its in their
outdoor enclosure with built in battery heating. I've
had more call backs in the past year with that system
than all my other off grid systems combined. I've
struggled with getting the right LVD settings, and
even with decent settings, it seems the battery
heating and the no load draw of the BMS will go ahead
and drag the battery into shut down, requiring a trip
out. I have a small variable DC power supply which
has been very important in the new days of LiPO4. I
run it on a Ryobi inverter. </p>
<p>One of the times I went out, the system was not shut
down, but the HomeGrid screen was blank, and I had to
reboot the battery to get it back on. I also
experienced the BMS shutdown others mentioned, when
one of the 4 batteries was out of EQ with the other
batteries. Even the initial startup was a nightmare,
requiring a tech to take over my computer remotely,
and then a month later, I had to sit out there for 3
hours while it came to full charge so I could bring
the 4th battery back on line. At least their Tech
Support was really good.</p>
<p>Also their outdoor enclosure is really chinzy, it
takes over 30 stainless screws to attach the 2 halves
together, and many of those screws have galled and
are unusable. I even had to cut a couple off just to
get in to service the battery. </p>
<p>Ray<br>
Remote Solar</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/3/2025 11:18 AM, Jason
Szumlanski via RE-wrenches wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAE438R_a7fT7ZbvYB56Wz9eguPytJMNoCNY9pN3y=R4L0F-KbA@mail.gmail.com">
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<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Nothing
like a coincidence... </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">A
client on an island with three stacks of 8
HomeGrid batteries has just called me to
report that the entire system is down. All of
the battery BMS module displays are dark. I
have mySolArk data from three inverters there
that show the batteries were topped off and
just idling along with solar covering the load
at 5:00 pm last night when the power suddenly
went out, killing the Starlink connection. I'm
going for a boat ride tomorrow to check it
out. Ugh. </div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I
will report my findings. Not sure if it's a
battery or inverter issue, but the customer's
handyman reported nothing on the battery
screens, which seems strange to me. Even
an error should not turn the display off, as
far as I recall.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">P.S.
No power loss notifications from Sol-Ark is a
frustrating loss of functionality. I heard
a rumor on Facebook that they are fixing this
in mySolArk this month, but I'm not holding
my breath.</div>
<br clear="all">
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar Design
Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional (PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor
CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font color="#333333"
face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor
EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote gmail_quote_container">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Sep 2,
2025 at 4:31 PM Jason Szumlanski <<a
href="mailto:jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jason@floridasolardesigngroup.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">We have some stacks of
HomeGrid out there in various
capacities, from the smallest with five
in a stack, up to four fully populated
stacks of eight. In total, I oversee
around 150 Stack'd batteries, including
many that I installed and some that were
installed by others. I will say that
they are easy to install, have a nice
bold visual interface, look good, and
perform up to expectations. They
communicate flawlessly with Sol-Ark 15k.
However...</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I believe there is a
fundamental design flaw in this
stackable battery architecture. Here is
why I am no longer offering HomeGrid in
a nutshell:</div>
<div>
<ul>
<li
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">When one battery in a
stack has a fault, the entire stack
faults out, which renders the stack
non-functional until you either:</li>
<ol
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<li>Remove the battery from the
stack or turn the circuit breaker
off, and:</li>
<li>Reconfigure all of the dip
switches to remove the
battery from the communication
loop, then:</li>
<li>Reprogram the master BMS to
recognize the new stack members
and their positions.</li>
</ol>
<li
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">If you have multiple
stacks, you have to do all of the
above, and in addition:</li>
<ol
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<li>Remove a battery from each
additional stack to balance them,
then perform all of the above
steps on each stack. </li>
<li>But before you reprogram each
master BMS you have to take the
stacks out of
parallel communication, then
reprogram the parallel stacks
before operation again. </li>
<li>Making each stack equal is per
HomeGrid support, but in practice,
I don't know if it is necessary,
especially if you are losing one
of eight (12.5%). If you have
smaller stacks, this might be a
bigger issue.</li>
</ol>
<li><font
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">To diagnose a battery issue with a
laptop and cable and get warranty
support, you can only do that with
the master BMS because each
battery does not have a comm port.
That means you have to have the
entire stack non-functional while
you perform diagnostics, which is
not ideal for off-grid settings,
especially if there is only one
stack.</font></li>
<li><font
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">If a battery fails to balance and
becomes depleted, causing </font>a
fault, there are no simple terminal
bolts to connect an external
charger. I'm not sure how you would
even accomplish a manual charge
without opening up the case.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The EG4 server rack
batteries work in a fundamentally
different way. Each battery has an
independent BMS. When there is an alarm
in a stack or stacks of batteries, the
entire battery bank does not fault out.
You can physically take a battery out of
the stack without changing any dip
switches on the other batteries. You can
shut one down or experience a fault
on one battery without any others
shutting down. I have tried this with
the LifePower4 batteries, even when
there are multiple communication strings
of 16 batteries connected to a
communication hub. The rest of the
batteries just keep on working, which is
the way it should be! The communication
hub will just show zero values for the
battery that is missing from the stack.
I cannot confirm if this is the case
with the LL batteries, but I suspect it
would be. In a way, this is like having
the batteries in an open loop in terms
of resilience, with all of the benefits
that closed-loop battery communications
offers. I have had a small variety of
battery issues with EG4, and not once
has the whole bank of batteries been
affected by one battery's issue.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Side note about another
server rack option: I can confirm that
Pytes Ebox V1 batteries in a
communication stack will shut down all
batteries if one has a fault, at least
confirmed by one situation I had. This
is despite each battery having it's own
BMS and console port to communicate with
the batteries. The situation in my case
was a battery that had no "Barcode"
programmed into it, which was causing a
parallel communication fault and
shutting down the whole stack. In this
case, physically bypassing the battery
with the issue with a Cat5 coupling
worked fine. There are no dip switches
to set, and the master battery
reconfigures the communication stack
automatically. With Pytes' support, I
was able to manually code in the Barcode
to the BMS with a console cable, and the
problem went away. I am not sure if all
varieties of faults would have the same
effect with Pytes EBoxes, but this
communication issue definitely caused
the whole stack to fault out.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">The phenomenon of the new
breed of LFP batteries lacking
reliability/redundancy inspired a blog
post that I did just a couple of weeks
ago: <a
href="https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/homegrid-stackd-batteries-the-redundancy-fallacy"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://floridasolardesigngroup.com/homegrid-stackd-batteries-the-redundancy-fallacy</a></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">A couple of other notes
on HomeGrid:</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<ul>
<li>They do not have any way to
connect conduit to the BMS. You
wouldn't want to anyway, especially
with rigid conduit, since you might
need to remove the BMS for service.
The BMS should be at the bottom, in
my opinion, for this reason. You can
only run positive and negative
battery cables out of the provided
strain relief glands in free air,
and it requires that the batteries
be about 4 inches away from the
wall. There is no suitable way to
protect 100% of the battery cables.</li>
<li>Along the same lines, if you ever
plan to expand the system, make sure
you leave enough battery cable
length to reach a higher level.</li>
<li>The lack of busbars is a
really nice feature (until you get
into larger systems).</li>
<li>The discharge rate supports the
maximum input for a Sol-Ark 15K
with, I believe, just three
batteries.</li>
<li>I love their "busbar pair"
designed specifically for the
Sol-Ark 15K. I order a pair with
every inverter, regardless of what
battery I am using (although I am
not actively selling Sol-Ark right
now).</li>
<li>You can't monitor the condition of
individual batteries with Solar
Assistant, or any other tool
remotely to my knowledge. You can't
even monitor the condition of
paralleled stacks.</li>
<li>The "app" for the batteries is
mind-bendingly useless – unless I'm
really missing something.</li>
<li>For some firmware and hardware
versions, over-the-air updates are
not possible, and HomeGrid will need
to send you an update tool. To be
fair, I think this is also the case
with EG4 and some other
manufacturers.</li>
<li>Once we received a shipment where
three of eight batteries were in the
right boxes, but there were no guts
in the batteries at all! It was just
an empty steel battery shell. We had
to send them back to our supplier.
The boxes actually said 13 Kg on the
labels rather than 52 Kg, but nobody
at the factory caught it. Strange.</li>
<li>HomeGrid Support is very
competent, I would say among the
best in terms of knowing
their products inside and out, but
it's 50/50 whether I get someone on
the phone or get a call back in a
timely manner that allows me to
complete a service call. They are
willing to schedule assistance if
you have an off-grid situation that
requires help.</li>
</ul>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Is this a vote for EG4?
Not necessarily, but it's hard to argue
with the price and the superior
reliability/redundancy aspects of the
LifePower4/LL batteries. One battery
fault should not shut down an entire
system unless there is a legitimate
safety hazard. It's possible that these
are UL issues that require
system shutdowns, but EG4 appears to
have overcome the problems I've seen
with other manufacturers' products.</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Like others mentioned, I
prefer to go with the 14.3 kWh / 16 kWh
sealed batteries. I feel they have
better build quality (other than my
recent rant about rust on the MNP
PowerFlo16), and keeping components
sealed up better just makes sense to me,
especially in challenging environments.
Of course, if you want more modularity
in terms of expansion options and less
impact if a single unit goes down, 5 kWh
units might be a better option. There is
no right or wrong option, I guess –
sometimes it just comes down to
priorities, space, mounting options, and
price. </div>
<br>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr"><br>
Jason Szumlanski
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Principal
Solar Designer | Florida Solar
Design Group</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">NABCEP
Certified Solar Professional
(PVIP)</span><br
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:Roboto,RobotoDraft,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Florida
State Certified Solar Contractor
CVC56956</span></div>
<div><font color="#333333"
face="Roboto, RobotoDraft, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Florida
Certified Electrical Contractor
EC13013208</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue,
Sep 2, 2025 at 10:41 AM Christopher Warfel
via RE-wrenches <<a
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi
Wrenches, I went through the archives and
read the comparison between <br>
these two. The HomeGrid manual was in
such a mess (or my pdf reader was <br>
defunct), that I started looking at other
options. If anyone has a <br>
strong opinion of either of these two, or
something better, I would <br>
appreciate. We traditionally install
small systems, and this would be <br>
one (@15kWh). I would prefer to use a
racking system with the BMS as <br>
part of the packaging. Solark 12kPV
multimode. Thank you, Chris<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Christopher Warfel, PE<br>
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.<br>
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807<br>
(401) 447-5773<br>
<br>
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<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
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